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Just use Scriptures - show me where everyone will be saved from God's wrath, because I am not seeing it.
A lot of misunderstanding to unpack here. We are saved from separation from God NOT wrath. Wrath is what we will reap for what we sow if we do not repent (change our state of mind). God's will is that all be saved. Are you suggesting that what God wills will NOT happen?
Yep - you're right - I can't.
So deal with what's presented.
You have presented the least comprehensible book in the Bible as your support without explaining how you think it supports your views. The best biblical scholars cannot agree on what Revelation actually communicates.
You have been shown numerous times that it is supported in the Scriptures, your unbelief is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Just use Scriptures - show me where everyone will be saved from God's wrath, because I am not seeing it.
There is nothing that indicates a means of getting around the second death in the lake of fire. It
Revelation 14:9-11 (regarding those in the tribulation period who worshiped the beast, but note the length of time specified)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:5-8
5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:22-27
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Nothing that you had underlined relates to eternal damnation for a finite life. Please, explain to me why the "Lake" in the so called Lake of fire is a haven or a place of safety? Or, is it just your obstinate refusal to see that the purpose (metaphorically) is for cleansing and purification of the person themselves? Why torment a timid (meek) or fearful person in the same way you might a murderer or those who are immoral - could it be for correction? Remember, all those he receives are disciplined or corrected as any loving father would do for the one he loves. Can you imagine the "weeping" that would take place, if the person you had previously murdered was standing in your presence - how much remorse and pain you would feel knowing you had taken their life, when faced with the truth of your own thoughts, deeds and actions? How much pain and suffering have you endured in this life because of injuring or harming that of another? I have no doubt that people have regretted what they have done to one extent or another, and wished they could take it all back, even the small things that may have hurt someone, unintended.
Last edited by Jerwade; 05-03-2020 at 12:57 PM..
Reason: spelling
Someone who believes in folk being sent to hell for not believing in Jesus please explain why you believe that fete is necessary. Taken on face value the idea is ludicrous and surely at some point you had to think so too.
Also, the scriptures tell us that out of the mouths of babes and sucklings i have ordained praise. Could you ever imagine the message of believe or face the wrath and condemnation of God coming out their mouths. Come on, repent for believing in this message you have sold yourself to.
A lot of misunderstanding to unpack here. We are saved from separation from God NOT wrath. Wrath is what we will reap for what we sow if we do not repent (change our state of mind). God's will is that all be saved. Are you suggesting that what God wills will NOT happen?
I supplied the verses about what will happen.
Please address your response in respect to those verses.
Thanks.
Revelation 14:9-11 (regarding those in the tribulation period who worshiped the beast, but note the length of time specified)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:5-8
5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:22-27
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
You have presented the least comprehensible book in the Bible as your support without explaining how you think it supports your views. The best biblical scholars cannot agree on what Revelation actually communicates.
That's their problem... maybe because they are fighting against what it is clearly saying because they don't like the outcome.
The verses I am presenting are clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
You can't deal with what you presented, but you somehow think it supports your belief? Huh?
I said you were right... just respond to the verses.
I supplied the verses about what will happen.
Please address your response in respect to those verses.
Thanks.
<snip>
I did, perhaps you missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You have presented the least comprehensible book in the Bible as your support without explaining how you think it supports your views. The best biblical scholars cannot agree on what Revelation actually communicates.
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