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Old 07-03-2019, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,959 posts, read 47,928,497 times
Reputation: 14806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorMark View Post
The question: How can God send people to eternal hell who never even heard of Jesus

Religions Answer: They are without excuse. Creation testifies. WRONG!

Heres the right answer:

Jesus said: “And I, If I be lifted up from the earth WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME.”
It sounds like you are saying the "drawing" cannot happen through His creation. How does God draw people who never heard of Him?

 
Old 07-03-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: central Florida
1,146 posts, read 656,675 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorMark View Post
The question: How can God send people to eternal hell who never even heard of Jesus

Religions Answer: They are without excuse. Creation testifies. WRONG!

Creation does not testify of any of the salvific essentials.
-Sinless Son of God
-Crucifixion
-Resurrection

Heres the right answer:

Jesus said: “And I, If I be lifted up from the earth WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME.”

If any human, even one, dies without having been DRAWN UNTO JESUS by the GOSPEL, not some general revelation....then Jesus FAILED to keep his word. Thats impossible.

Thus we must conclude that for Jesus to be 100% successful in drawing every human being to himself...and many die without ever hearing the gospel...that means they WILL get to hear it postmortem and be given a chance to repent.
Pure unadulterated bovine excrement from beginning to end.

Gospel of Luke 13:22-30 & Gospel of Matthew 7:13-14

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS CAN FIGURE.

According to statistical evidence the total number of Christians on planet Earth is approximately 2.1 billion. That's about one-third the population of the planet. That means 2/3 of the world's population will not be and is not saved. Deal with the truth or continue to live a lie !!!

If all are saved, according to the false premise quoted above, then there is no necessity for Christ to have died upon the cross and absolutely no necessity for any prophet to preach repentance.

If all are saved, then the need for repentance is a false doctrine.

Finally, there is NO HELL. The Bible NEVER suggests or implies or teaches that there is eternal conscious torment of sinners. The Bible teaches sinners are totally utterly destroyed in the Second Death - and that's MOST PEOPLE.

According to the words of Jesus and statistical FACT, most people will not be granted immortal life.

And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19

My question is this - WHO is lifting Christ up from the earth?

If it is you, dear reader, then you shall be saved. Unfortunately most people grind the Son of God into the dirt beneath their feet. These are those who will be condemned for their unbelief and who will be utterly annihilated by the Second Death.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
 
Old 07-03-2019, 02:04 PM
 
175 posts, read 76,519 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorMark View Post
Ah yes, the old “some from among all argument”.
Ah, yes, the same old "God has to be a cosmic Ward Cleaver who fits my personal idea of a Good Daddy" argument.

Damnation for the unsaved is clearly and unequivocally taught in the Bible, including from Jesus' own mouth. A very solid biblical case can be made that very few will be saved, but no biblical case can be made that all will be saved.

I have no idea what damnation will look like. The descriptions in the Bible may be literal or figurative. But unless Jesus wasn't the Son of God, I do know that damnation will be the fate of the unsaved.

Universalism is so utterly contrary to the gospel message that it could reasonably be described as proceeding from the "spirit of the antichrist." If the biblical teachings and orthodox Christianity are true, isn't universalism precisely what Satan would like people to believe?

Your notion of God is far too small. We humans have only a rudimentary understanding of God and his eternal plan. He tells us explicitly that his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts. You insist upon a God who fits your anthropomorphic notion of what he "ought" to be like - a cosmic Ward Cleaver. Or, more precisely, a cosmic you. The God whom Christians worship is the eternal, transcendent, perfectly holy, supremely wise, supremely just, loving and merciful creator of all that is, ever was or ever will be. We don't sit in judgment of him.

The fate of those who never heard of Jesus is one of the mysteries of the faith. For those who are damned, I am confident we will ultimately see that their fate was worthy of the supremely wise and just creator. The fact that this is a mystery - even a very troubling mystery - is no warrant for teaching a doctrine that blatantly contradicts what the Bible teaches and Jesus himself taught. The fact that this doctrine utterly guts the gospel and stands orthodox Christianity on its head is "just a bit" suspicious to me.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 07:51 PM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,200,454 times
Reputation: 3398
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 08:32 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 941,495 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorMark View Post
The question: How can God send people to eternal hell who never even heard of Jesus

Religions Answer: They are without excuse. Creation testifies. WRONG!

Creation does not testify of any of the salvific essentials.
-Sinless Son of God
-Crucifixion
-Resurrection

Heres the right answer:

Jesus said: “And I, If I be lifted up from the earth WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME.”

If any human, even one, dies without having been DRAWN UNTO JESUS by the GOSPEL, not some general revelation....then Jesus FAILED to keep his word. Thats impossible.

Thus we must conclude that for Jesus to be 100% successful in drawing every human being to himself...and many die without ever hearing the gospel...that means they WILL get to hear it postmortem and be given a chance to repent.
That is a manner of interpretation.

He is not saying lifted up at all. He is saying honored which has not been done.

Your wrong! There is no postmortem.

He is saying that all mankind will eventually be like Him, the son, the servant of God.

" No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. "

I see it.

I belong to what is above.

The man who loves me will see the kingdom of God and keep my word.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 09:58 PM
 
64,170 posts, read 40,596,057 times
Reputation: 7942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free4you View Post
That is a manner of interpretation.

He is not saying lifted up at all. He is saying honored which has not been done.

Your wrong! There is no postmortem.

He is saying that all mankind will eventually be like Him, the son, the servant of God.

" No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. "

I see it.

I belong to what is above.

The man who loves me will see the kingdom of God and keep my word.
Your self-delusion is tedious.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 10:25 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 941,495 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your self-delusion is tedious.
You'll never know the power of God and His righteousness because you do not believe in the One He sent.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 11:04 PM
 
64,170 posts, read 40,596,057 times
Reputation: 7942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free4you View Post
You'll never know the power of God and His righteousness because you do not believe in the One He sent.
I believe in the one He sent - Jesus, NOT some sadly deluded internet poster.
 
Old 07-04-2019, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 11,002,900 times
Reputation: 18723
Its a simple answer. Yes, God desires all to be saved. But because of his evil heart and being spiritually dead, mankind refuses to believe. Just like some on this forum. So God has chosen some, kind of like a military draft, into his kingdom and service, to bring the word of God to the whole world, in hopes that they will believe. But the world fights God's efforts in many ways. The ones that never hear are suffering for the sins of their parents, just like God declared when He gave the 10 commandments.
 
Old 07-04-2019, 09:52 AM
 
3,220 posts, read 941,495 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I believe in the one He sent - Jesus, NOT some sadly deluded internet poster.
You think Jesus was the only one God sent! That just shows your lack of understanding.

"If you believe you'll see the glory of God."

You don't see it so you do not believe.

I believe therefore I see.
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