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In a sense I can understand that. I guess because hetero is how we are designed to operate, there is a sense that this is the proper means of expressing sexuality in the marriage context. And therefore it is human nature to look down on those who are contrary to that. I am not saying that the looking down on others is good, but it just is. Just like if we are not careful, we can look down on others who commit other sins. Without Christ, acts of sin are regular in one's life.
I have mentioned this before, but for me it was pornography. Couldn't imagine life without it. I continued the habit after coming to Christ - and after I got married. I knew it was wrong. Holy Spirit was convicting me. Couldn't stop. I started praying about it right after I looked at it - desiring repentance. Thanked God for sending His Son to die for these sins that I commit. Slowly, I started looking at it less and less often - and I am not addicted anymore. So I understand having a sinful habit/action be part of you.
I see that a lot in the community, the pornography thing. While I can't get my head around that...sex doesn't interest me really, I definitely can identify with addiction. I hate smoking, it makes me smell like an ashtray haha, but I'm addicted. So I get that. This goes far beyond behavior and/or sinful nature. This...our orientations, go right to the heart of romantic human relationships. Some of us can be celibate, but the vast majority of us cannot. We need a partner. We need that love, or at least the potential for that to grow. See, we do the same things straight people do. We have that one person we can go to when everything goes wonky, to help share the burdens of life, someone to share the deepest part of ourselves with. Not sex, though I'm sure that's a part of it...it goes so far beyond that. To be told that to love in that way is forbidden...Rob, it's a burden to great for us to carry. It's not about sex, or behavior, or anything else. It's about relationships.
In a sense I can understand that. I guess because hetero is how we are designed to operate, there is a sense that this is the proper means of expressing sexuality in the marriage context. And therefore it is human nature to look down on those who are contrary to that. I am not saying that the looking down on others is good, but it just is. Just like if we are not careful, we can look down on others who commit other sins. Without Christ, acts of sin are regular in one's life.
I have mentioned this before, but for me it was pornography. Couldn't imagine life without it. I continued the habit after coming to Christ - and after I got married. I knew it was wrong. Holy Spirit was convicting me. Couldn't stop. I started praying about it right after I looked at it - desiring repentance. Thanked God for sending His Son to die for these sins that I commit. Slowly, I started looking at it less and less often - and I am not addicted anymore. So I understand having a sinful habit/action be part of you.
If a same sex relationship were sin, you would have a point.
Does he reign over modern day life in this country?
No. You have him confused with Pharaoh.... but that's not the point. The point is that anyone in a position of authority will rule according to their own theology.
Not sure why you feel the need to blast me for believing the Bible then.
I do not understand why you use the Bible in place of God. It APPEARS to me, and it seems to most people, as if you are just taking that stance (that the Bible is to be taken literally as as God's Exact Words) just so that you have a reason to hate and point fingers at people you don't like. Maybe you would deny it, but be assured that's exactly how you come off to other people, as someone who enjoys being hurtful to others and uses the Bible as the excuse to do that. You don't sound kind. I don't know if that's true in your real life, but it is on here. If you take that as "blasting" you, I don't know what to say. People react to meanness.
If I went by feelings, I would not believe in God. For most of my life, I've felt that God doesn't like me much. Those feelings have to be overridden by my faith in who God is, that he is Love. That is my personal struggle.
If I went by just the words written in the Bible, I would not believe in God, either. It sounds pretty ridiculous in a lot of places. I wanted to be an atheist. I tried. But I can't not believe because of something I can't explain, a sort of knowing, whispers in my soul, as it were. The same way we get messages through our intuition and know things that we don't know how we know is the best way I can explain it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well maybe you need to reread this one:
The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:31 It doesn't say mock thy neighbor when you can't stand their opinion.
I didn't mock you. I laughed at TroutDude's question because it WAS funny. Even you should be able to admit it was funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And while I don't believe every single word in scripture is from God (Psalms is clearly David's thoughts and praises), God is speaking through the scripture. Jesus used the actual words from the scripture to combat Satan and the words of prophecy have come true sometimes in incredible detail. If you are going to say the Bible is nothing but writings of men who were inspired by God then you have placed it on the level of a Joel Osteem book.
I don't know what a Joel Osteem book is (I think he's a TV preacher, right?). Yes, I agree with you that God speaks to us through the scripture, as individuals. Something we read or heard 100 times might not have a particular meaning until one day, it does. It may be an answer we were looking for at that time. But that happens DESPITE the fact that it is a book written by men.
Look, I know most of you who claim the Bible-only path don't consider us Episcopalians "real Christ[ans" because of our belief in the three prongs of Scripture, Tradition, and REASON, but that last part is a gift from God. We can THINK. And when we don't have answers, we can ask for guidance. Actually, that's what most of my prayers are these day, "What do I do about XYZ?" And I wait for the answer.
Gay people ARE born the way they are. You would know this if you knew any gay people personally or allowed yourself to get to know some and to like them. Reason overrules ancient writings and laws from a very different culture that lived in a very different world thousands of years ago; i.e., the Jewish writings of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The Jews were set apart from the people around them, and they wrote down their strict code of behavior that some still adhere to to this day. Others have provided information on what may have prompted the codes against same sex relationships,still others have a different interpretation of them. I've found that informative. It made me THINK.
I know too many gay Christians, people who have been hurt because they believe in God and want to be part of a church but are cast aside because who they are frightens someone else--over nothing, over something as minor as loving someone who has the same set of genitals they do. Did not Christ say what you said above, to love one another? He didn't say, "Except for THOSE people." Does not your belief tell you it is wrong to treat someone that way? Can you not hear the pain through geekigurl's words at how she feels being called an abomination because of who she is? Some fundamentalists, including on here, try to get around it with Ghandi's "hate the sin, love the sinner" saying, but what if it's not a sin? What if these people ARE just who they are because God made them that way? How will you answer to God if you did not love those neighbors because of who they are?
I've posted this before. My mother is 87 years old. She is not a rippingly strict fundamentalist because life has taught her differently, but she believes that the bible teaches homosexuality is wrong and so it's wrong. (I am a vegetarian, and I just got off the phone with her about Easter dinner, when she reminded me that people in the bible ate lamb, so it's OK for her to cook that for Easter dinner, lol.) She has some funny beliefs based on her interpretation of the bible. But she is also wise in many ways, and she said to me once that she will not say anything unkind to a gay person or admonish them in any way, but will treat them the way she treats everyone. If they are sinning, it is between them and God, just as it is for all of us and our shortcomings. I might not be able to convince you that same-sex relationships are not a sin--which I believe they are not--but can you at least try to get to a place where loving your neighbor overrules any other opinions you may have, and make an effort to welcome gay believers into the fold unconditionally rather than send them away hurt and rejected for who they are?
The activity is sin. People can relate all they want.
What happens when you assume? You have no idea who is sexually active. Are all married heterosexual couples active? The point is, unless you've latched on to someone 24 hours a day 7 days a week, you have no idea of a person's sexual activity. It is a knee jerk reaction to call a person a sinner, just because he is gay. Being gay is not a sin and you can't prove who is are sexually active, it is such an overreach. Being married doesn't always mean a couple will be sexually active, please stop jumping to conclusions, and give same sex married couples the benefit of the doubt. All in all, legal sexual activity between consenting adults, is none of your business.
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You have no idea who is sexually active. Are all married heterosexual couples active? The point is, unless you've latched on to someone 24 hours a day 7 days a week, you have no idea of a person's sexual activity. It is a knee jerk reaction to call a person a sinner, just because he is gay. Being gay is not a sin and you can't prove who is are sexually active, it is such an overreach. Being married doesn't always mean a couple will be sexually active, please stop jumping to conclusions, and give same sex married couples the benefit of the doubt. All in all, legal sexual activity between consenting adults, is none of your business.