Christian values - cancelling a funeral because deceased was gay (suicide, Bible)
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"On Sunday, 10 News went to Jenkins' service to ask him about what happened.
For the first 40 minutes of the service, we weren't even allowed in the building. A representative told us church announcements were being made.
When were were finally allowed inside, Jenkins was thanking his congregation for prayers over the past few days.
"My family is doing fine," he said to claps from the audience. "Church family please remain focused and prayerful ... and we will continue to stand on the word of God."
So I ask again, especially of Finn....how does his actions exemplify "standing on the word of God"?
Finn_Jarber; Judge if you must. I am simply saying we do not know the full story, and we do not know if they regretted / repented the decision. I make an effort to refrain from judging, especially when it comes to people I do not even know, and when all I know about the incident is hear-say and a newspaper article, which may, or may not be the truth
You supposedly are a christian, and believe christian things. I'm just reminding you of one of the tenets of your belief.
I make no pretense of believing in any omnipotent, sentient, anthropomorphic but invisible entity, nor give any veracity to 2-3000 year old myths promulgated by a wandering tribe of superstitious goat herders.
I get my spirituality by communing in places like this:
You outright say that you're not a Christian, and you don't believe in God. Then you outright doubt the commitment of those that do claim to be a Christian. What makes you qualified to do so?
The Gospel that Jesus taught had a question to it:
Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”
I can not fathom someone who calls themself a Christian pastor who would mislead the hearers into thinking that the deceased who by their life answer declared from their heart to that question was "no".
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who
have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will
inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[b] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
(a) Or wrongdoers (b)The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts
The purpose of a Christian funeral is to remind the non-deceased present (at the funeral service) is of the hope of the resurrection to life that deceased placed his\her faith in that (s)he will inherit the kingdom of Godand we the believer look forward to being united with the those fallen asleep in Christ.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 .... God teaches no there will be no such reuniting and those who "die" in their sins will not see life.
I never said I'd give them a "Christian funeral". There is a decided difference between some that I have done. My first funeral was for a man I'd never met, and he was decidedly anti-church, and anti-God. I was friends with his daughter, and I was the only clergy she knew. It was held in the funeral home. I did share the Gospel....but I did not suggest the man knew Jesus. I said a few nice things about him, but did not suggest that he was a Christian.
There were others, one fairly recently, that I knew for a fact that the deceased was a devout believer. She had been a Christian for decades. I spoke about her faith, and I rejoiced that she was at home with her savior.
The reason I asked you in particular is because based on what I see when you post on this board is, if the post is from certain posters, you come at them hard.
Please attach quotes, so we can read them in context.
Quote:
When here it is, based on the information that we are getting from the new outlets (That's all we can go by at this point) do YOU...Finn-Jarber see their decision as "standing on the word of God" and if so, how are they standing on the word of God by cancelling the funeral for what ever their reasoning is, after the fact that it was agreed to have it at the church of which the deceased was a member of.
I do not recall saying they "stood on the word of God", I said I refrain from judging them without knowing all the facts and without knowing whether or not they regretted or repented the decision. I cannot think of any passage in the bible which says who you should or not bury, so I assume their decision was based on something other than the word of God. People make errors, but judging them based on an article you see in the internet is definitely NOT 'standing on the word of God".
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 08-13-2014 at 09:12 AM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You outright say that you're not a Christian, and you don't believe in God. Then you outright doubt the commitment of those that do claim to be a Christian. What makes you qualified to do so?
I don't doubt that many christians are committed to their faith (and some even should be committed, e.g. Phelps).
What I have a problem with is that many feel tenets of their faith need to be forced on a secular society. That many feel we need to be guided by stories cobbled together by those ancient superstitious tribesmen, especially when one realizes that those stories are often plagiarized from even more ancient stories from the region.
I never said I'd give them a "Christian funeral". There is a decided difference between some that I have done. My first funeral was for a man I'd never met, and he was decidedly anti-church, and anti-God. I was friends with his daughter, and I was the only clergy she knew. It was held in the funeral home. I did share the Gospel....but I did not suggest the man knew Jesus. I said a few nice things about him, but did not suggest that he was a Christian.
There were others, one fairly recently, that I knew for a fact that the deceased was a devout believer. She had been a Christian for decades. I spoke about her faith, and I rejoiced that she was at home with her savior.
The first paragraph is an example of what I was referring to when I said:
Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
I can not fathom someone who calls themself a Christian pastor who would mislead the hearers into thinking that the deceased who by their life declared from their heart, answered that question was "no".
What do you think Jesus meant when he said ... “Let the dead bury their own dead"
As one of our theologians wrote concerning a Christian minister doing a burial of a deceased non-believer:
For the funeral service of an unbeliever there is no comfort whatsoever we can offer.
Faithful preaching of law and gospel to the loved ones of the deceased will most likely
antagonize and bring anger rather than joy regarding the loved one who died. The
temptation to compromise by neglecting pointed law and remaining silent on the damnable
nature of unrepented sin is great, and to do so is ultimately loveless and reprehensible for a
servant of the gospel and of souls.
Merely to preach the gospel (narrowly defined) without
the clear application of law is also unacceptable and invites false assumptions among the
audience plus rationalizations about the fate of the deceased.
I don't doubt that many christians are committed to their faith (and some even should be committed, e.g. Phelps).
What I have a problem with is that many feel tenets of their faith need to be forced on a secular society. That many feel we need to be guided by stories cobbled together by those ancient superstitious tribesmen, especially when one realizes that those stories are often plagiarized from even more ancient stories from the region.
You have it backwards ... the problem is secular society feel tenets of their godlessness need to be forced or viewed as valid as the righteous.
Your categorizing the truth as "stories cobbled together by those ancient superstitious tribesmen" will one day be shown for what it is. The Christian Church is told to expect such animosity and in due time we will be vindicated of all the hate being spoken against and hate being acted upon it by the unbelieving world.
You have it backwards ... the problem is secular society feel tenets of their godlessness need to be forced or viewed as valid as the righteous.
Your categorizing the truth as "stories cobbled together by those ancient superstitious tribesmen" will one day be shown for what it is. The Christian Church is told to expect such animosity and in due time we will be vindicated of all the hate being spoken against and hate being acted upon by the unbelieving world.
Truth is not hate. Just because you don't like the taste of it, doesn't qualify it as "hate."
I don't mind gay people, or women or other groups of people, but when they start turning activist, and forcing others to do their desires, then I get peeved. OK in some cases, yeah, people should revolt, but you have to know which is truly for the better good or for some selfish personal agenda. I think this - if I want something and you say no, if its a legitimate reason, (or maybe they have a personal reason) but whatever, if they say no, I may try to persuade them, however, if they really refused or if I were insulting them personally, I would take my business elsewhere. Someone else would want my money.. so why don't people do that when they get a no. I mean really, it would be a better revenge to give another company your business, so why don't people just do that? but nooooo they HAVE to have it their way, and I don't mean Burger King.
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