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Glacierx, you have made the best darn post on this thread. I have absolutely no interest in whether or not any of this malarky will take place. My instructions from God are to live in the here and now---and to be concerned about the situations such as Corrie ten Boom related.
In other words, don't waste time waving your biblical education around when you can be doing something about people who are suffering here and now.
If I can help ONE PERSON with money or food or love or all three--then that will be the rapture for them.
Exactly sir.
To many of us are caught up in the bag of wind of bible education, rather than being in the experience of "as he is so are we in this world".
To many of us are caught up in the bag of wind of bible education, rather than being in the experience of "as he is so are we in this world".
Yep that is the example the Apostles set for us...... wait, no they went preaching and teaching. Humm how did they get it so wrong???? Shudda been running soup kitchens, right?
Yep that is the example the Apostles set for us...... wait, no they went preaching and teaching. Humm how did they get it so wrong???? Shudda been running soup kitchens, right?
Bible Education = anything that is not profitable in being conformed to the image of His son = a form of godliness but denying the power.
Some were claiming that the Rapture (catching up) was not in the bible. I showed it was. Some said the idea was only 150 years old. I showed it was Paul that introduced it.
...but FBB, if you read that particular verse in conjunction with the other verses, it is talking about those who have died before, and Paul telling them that he doesn't want them to have no hope, and to know what will happen to those believers who have already died.
Here's something that certainly always scared me:
Revelation 13:5-7 A mouth speaking great things and blasphemy was given to him. Authority to make war for forty-two months was given to him. (6) He opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his dwelling, those who dwell in heaven. (7) It was given to him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. Authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation was given to him.
Who are these 'saints', that the antichrist was given permission to not only make war with them, but to actually overcome them? I don't know. But I'll say this; that is such a serious, serious statement, that I don't want to take a chance and assume that it might be...Jews who have converted, Christians who became Christians after the rapture occurred- It could only be one of three, or perhaps a mixture of all three- but the third one it could be might very well be believers who are alive today, and find themselves in the midst of the tribulation- without ever, ever expecting it.
Like I said, I'm honestly not trying to technically 'challenge' your belief in the rapture-I'm really just asking you to find out for yourself, and not to leave out the possibility that it might not quite be that way- and this is coming from someone who was raised on believing in the rapture my whole life, and never questioned it. The bible tells us to 'test the spirits'- and what if......what if the whole rapture theory is designed to ensure that those believers who might find themselves in the midst of the tribulation could be lost, because they are not spiritually prepared for any of it? My whole thought on it, and my reason for saying what I say is to have people really get serious about their relationship with Jesus Christ, cultivate it, be very familiar with the Word, and basically permeate themselves in their relationship with Him- in order to ......I don't know what other word to use here, but in order to survive what is coming, and what we might just possibly have to go through. I just find the alternative (no pre-trib rapture) far too frightening not to be ready for, or even expected. In the past and even now, there are 'saints' who are imprisoned, killed, tortured for their faith in Jesus Christ. We have it easy in the U.S.- you aren't imprisoned for believing in Jesus, you are free to worship as you want to, regardless of what it is- but in many countries, that absolutely is not so. I know that this isn't a popular thing to say, and most people don't want to hear it, let alone think about it- but nevertheless, it's still true.
...but FBB, if you read that particular verse in conjunction with the other verses, it is talking about those who have died before, and Paul telling them that he doesn't want them to have no hope, and to know what will happen to those believers who have already died.
Yes it included those who had died along with those who remain alive.
Quote:
Here's something that certainly always scared me:
Revelation 13:5-7 A mouth speaking great things and blasphemy was given to him. Authority to make war for forty-two months was given to him. (6) He opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his dwelling, those who dwell in heaven. (7) It was given to him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. Authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation was given to him.
Who are these 'saints', that the antichrist was given permission to not only make war with them, but to actually overcome them? I don't know. But I'll say this; that is such a serious, serious statement, that I don't want to take a chance and assume that it might be...Jews who have converted, Christians who became Christians after the rapture occurred- It could only be one of three, or perhaps a mixture of all three- but the third one it could be might very well be believers who are alive today, and find themselves in the midst of the tribulation- without ever, ever expecting it.
First of all, if you are a Christian you have nothing to fear.
Second, the passage you present mentions those taken in the rapture as "those who dwell in heaven" and of course those saints on earth are those who come to Christ after the rapture.
Quote:
Like I said, I'm honestly not trying to technically 'challenge' your belief in the rapture-I'm really just asking you to find out for yourself, and not to leave out the possibility that it might not quite be that way- and this is coming from someone who was raised on believing in the rapture my whole life, and never questioned it. The bible tells us to 'test the spirits'- and what if......what if the whole rapture theory is designed to ensure that those believers who might find themselves in the midst of the tribulation could be lost, because they are not spiritually prepared for any of it? My whole thought on it, and my reason for saying what I say is to have people really get serious about their relationship with Jesus Christ, cultivate it, be very familiar with the Word, and basically permeate themselves in their relationship with Him- in order to ......I don't know what other word to use here, but in order to survive what is coming, and what we might just possibly have to go through. I just find the alternative (no pre-trib rapture) far too frightening not to be ready for, or even expected. In the past and even now, there are 'saints' who are imprisoned, killed, tortured for their faith in Jesus Christ. We have it easy in the U.S.- you aren't imprisoned for believing in Jesus, you are free to worship as you want to, regardless of what it is- but in many countries, that absolutely is not so. I know that this isn't a popular thing to say, and most people don't want to hear it, let alone think about it- but nevertheless, it's still true.
While I see no way that the "catching up" spoken of by Paul won't happen. I don't believe God's word contains lies.
I don't think we are to prepare for such. Jesus taught us to give no thought for tomorrow for tomorrow will take care of itself. If we can trust God for our salvation why not trust Him for our future?
We can trust Him for our future- but Phil 2:12 also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Second, the passage you present mentions those taken in the rapture as "those who dwell in heaven" and of course those saints on earth are those who come to Christ after the rapture.
"Those who dwell in heaven" could mean absolutely anyone else who is there- it doesn't say anything about them coming from the rapture-and it doesn't say anything about those saints on earth being Christians who came to Christ after the rapture. All I am saying, is that IF there is a chance that a pre-trib rapture DOESN'T happen, we need to be prepared for that eventuality.
We can trust Him for our future- but Phil 2:12 also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Here's the entire verse, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
We can trust Him for our future- but Phil 2:12 also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Second, the passage you present mentions those taken in the rapture as "those who dwell in heaven" and of course those saints on earth are those who come to Christ after the rapture.
"Those who dwell in heaven" could mean absolutely anyone else who is there- it doesn't say anything about them coming from the rapture-and it doesn't say anything about those saints on earth being Christians who came to Christ after the rapture. All I am saying, is that IF there is a chance that a pre-trib rapture DOESN'T happen, we need to be prepared for that eventuality.
What is it you cannot trust God to take care of for you?
Can anyone explain why so many Christian fundamentalists seem to positively delight in armageddon scenarios?
Perhaps you confuse Armageddon, which is one battle during the end times, with rapture, where God's people will be with their Lord. What's wrong with looking forward to being face to face with the Lord?
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-29-2013 at 03:29 PM..
Perhaps you confuse Armageddon, which is one battle during the end times, with rapture, where God's people will be with their Lord. What's wrong with looking forward to being face to face with the Lord?
I've no problem with people looking forward to meeting their god, if that is their ultimate desire.
I'm referring to those who delight at the prospect of me and my fellow heathens being tossed into eternal hellfire on the big judgment day.
I picture them watching from their heavenly cloud, munching popcorn, listening to the screams and high-fiving each other.
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