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Old 11-17-2013, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,382,766 times
Reputation: 14073

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How would you counsel this young man?

I wouldn't, unless he asked specifically about this matter and was having difficulty coming to terms with it himself.
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:35 PM
 
2,280 posts, read 4,545,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I've been mentoring a young man 23 about being a man of integrity and faith.

He barely graduated from high school and then got into trouble and spent almost two-years in prison. He subsequently got out, married to a school teacher and they have a baby. He has also managed to land a good, college-level job, that he's held for the last two years. (He is clean-cut and very well spoken).

The problem is that he lied on his resume and applications about both his education and prison experience. His philosophy is that, 'As long as he's honest at work and does the job as well or better than the college-educated folks he works with, nobody is hurt by his deception.'

How would you counsel this young man?
I sympathize with people who get out of prison and who are denied many jobs due to their record, but I do not sympathize with anyone who fakes their education on their resume. This is never excusable.

I would flat out tell him so. If he did it, and feels it's OK, I doubt he will feel bad just because you said it is wrong to lie about your educational credentials. (It's also stupid to lie about the jail time, but there are post-prison job counseling programs he must have been referred to who can help him.)

I don't like the sound of any of this. I don't trust him.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:31 PM
 
400 posts, read 605,093 times
Reputation: 56
O, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

In such a place, so lone, so grim,
At dawning pale, or twilight dim,
** Marmion- Sir Walter Scott

I know it's worn out and cliche' but I simply love those lines. Since you are mentoring him on integrity and faith, honesty is bound to come up and I suspect this is how Mr. Horton found out this information.

There very well may have been others hurt by his deception. This is speculation, but there may have been an unsuccessful honest applicant holding that job today had truth been told.

I've heard more than one story over the years of someone being found out, sometimes years down the road, of embellishing their resume'. Most employers take a very dim view of this and do not like being played and lied to. There was the Dean of Students at a local college near me who was found out and swiftly terminated for embellishing his record.

Conversely, I've seen men who have screwed up and took it upon themselves to rectify the situation. A good worker, with no other issues, who comes forward displays the integrity many boss's find lacking and are more than likely to forgive.

The thought of me advising Mr. Horton seems like role reversal, but since you asked I'd play out a couple of scenarios with the young man you are mentoring.

1. Have him role play applying for another position in the company. He's being interviewed for a position with more responsibility and accountability. The matter of his resume' and application comes up. The company asks for an explanation of the discrepancies they've found.

2. Have him role play requesting and meeting with the appropriate person at work, be it the boss, HR, whatever. He takes the initiative and confesses to his deception.

A web begins with a single strand.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: New England
37,348 posts, read 28,500,449 times
Reputation: 2751
Forgive himself if he's under condemnation and move on.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,925,228 times
Reputation: 21859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne View Post
I sympathize with people who get out of prison and who are denied many jobs due to their record, but I do not sympathize with anyone who fakes their education on their resume. This is never excusable.

I would flat out tell him so. If he did it, and feels it's OK, I doubt he will feel bad just because you said it is wrong to lie about your educational credentials. (It's also stupid to lie about the jail time, but there are post-prison job counseling programs he must have been referred to who can help him.)

I don't like the sound of any of this. I don't trust him.
I've had similar discussions with him and his take has been: "At my age, with no college and two years of prison, I would be lucky to get a job washing dishes; - I don't like lying, but, that's the system -- so, if I can do as good or better a job as others with college and no prison, who have I hurt?" -- If he were a more mature Christian, I could perhaps help him see that he can trust God, not himself, to make the difference, but, he's not yet at that point in his faith.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,925,228 times
Reputation: 21859
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
O, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

In such a place, so lone, so grim,
At dawning pale, or twilight dim,
** Marmion- Sir Walter Scott

I know it's worn out and cliche' but I simply love those lines. Since you are mentoring him on integrity and faith, honesty is bound to come up and I suspect this is how Mr. Horton found out this information.

There very well may have been others hurt by his deception. This is speculation, but there may have been an unsuccessful honest applicant holding that job today had truth been told.

I've heard more than one story over the years of someone being found out, sometimes years down the road, of embellishing their resume'. Most employers take a very dim view of this and do not like being played and lied to. There was the Dean of Students at a local college near me who was found out and swiftly terminated for embellishing his record.

Conversely, I've seen men who have screwed up and took it upon themselves to rectify the situation. A good worker, with no other issues, who comes forward displays the integrity many boss's find lacking and are more than likely to forgive.

The thought of me advising Mr. Horton seems like role reversal, but since you asked I'd play out a couple of scenarios with the young man you are mentoring.

1. Have him role play applying for another position in the company. He's being interviewed for a position with more responsibility and accountability. The matter of his resume' and application comes up. The company asks for an explanation of the discrepancies they've found.

2. Have him role play requesting and meeting with the appropriate person at work, be it the boss, HR, whatever. He takes the initiative and confesses to his deception.

A web begins with a single strand.
Good response with some wise suggestions well worth trying - thanks!
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
6,909 posts, read 11,317,244 times
Reputation: 10888
Smile Question...

Is this a large company with layers and layers of management? Is he in a position where he handles sensitive information?

What did he go to prison for? Was it theft?
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:20 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,982,135 times
Reputation: 8956
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I've had similar discussions with him and his take has been: "At my age, with no college and two years of prison, I would be lucky to get a job washing dishes; - I don't like lying, but, that's the system -- so, if I can do as good or better a job as others with college and no prison, who have I hurt?" -- If he were a more mature Christian, I could perhaps help him see that he can trust God, not himself, to make the difference, but, he's not yet at that point in his faith.
You passed your judgment on him.

It really isn't any of your business.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
15,119 posts, read 9,983,896 times
Reputation: 12288
Reality;

If he 'fesses up" he'll probably be fired.
If he doesn't fess up, they'll probably find out and then he'll be fired.

Once you give him the tools it's his decision ... but this book "The Measure of a man" by Gene Getz, would be good for him to read.

It's easy for us to say "do the right thing" but the unintended consequences are not ours.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,925,228 times
Reputation: 21859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Reality;

If he 'fesses up" he'll probably be fired.
If he doesn't fess up, they'll probably find out and then he'll be fired.

Once you give him the tools it's his decision ... but this book "The Measure of a man" by Gene Getz, would be good for him to read.

It's easy for us to say "do the right thing" but the unintended consequences are not ours.
Therein lies the complexity of the issue.

Further, there is some truth to his contention that educational requirements are basically a tool used by HR to disqualify individuals who do not have a degree; yet, which is proven 'wrong' when people without a degree excel in the job. He believes that by the time they 'may find out down the road', he will have built support for his work, character and abilities.

Thanks for the book referral; I'll look into that. (One thing that has probably contributed to his need for mentoring and lack of direction in this area -- is that he never knew his father or had a father in the home.) He is really a fine, intelligent young man and I would hate to see his youthful mistakes and shortcomings effectively destroy the rest of his life.
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