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"Go and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and TEACH THEM TO CARRY OUT EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU."
No Doctor, I am not wrong. I stated that Hebrews 5:12 pertained to spiritually immature believers. And that they should have been teachers but were instead in need of being taught. And you are off topic with your rant.
Furthermore, Hebrews 8: 8-12 quotes an Old Testament passage that as it relates to Israel deals with the Millennial Kingdom. Not to the Church Age.
Glad you caught that. It's so easy to understand I don't see how one can get that so wrong unless they mistakenly thing the church replaced Israel.
The preachers and teachers are for our current covenant. And what a promise that is given to Israel for the future.
Again with the "special people" belief as if God were a respecter of persons! We are ALL "special" to God. Christ abides with us and we are to become spiritually mature, period. You would think we would be after 2000+ years! The churches have prevented that and have been a major stumbling block to our spiritual maturity and it has to stop.
You have the context wrong, yet again. It was directed at the "dull of hearing" who were spreading . . . (long after they should have been) . . . the "carnal milk" used for the babes in Christ . . . NOT the full Gospel of Christ for the mature in Christ. The first category characterizes the entire history of the Christian churches throughout the past 2000+ years. They have stagnated teaching the "milk" and refused to mature their understanding to grasp the "solid food" of Christ's Gospel. When they should have long ago learned enough to teach the "meat" . . . they kept teaching the "milk."
Hebrews 5:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
You always seem to get the context wrong. The word "GAVE" is past tense . . . we were NOT supposed to have been kept as children for 2000+years . . . stagnated at the stage of our ignorant ancestors drinking "carnal milk." We should long ago have matured beyond that to the full mature Gospel of Christ. The churches carry a heavy burden . . . as do those who continue to push the "milk" as teachers. You deny the New Covenant.
It is Hebrews 8 that specifically states the terms of the New Covenant.
Hebrews 8:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
You and your teachers and the churches have frightened your brothers and sisters away from seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance to what God has "written in our hearts" . . . keeping them as children drinking "milk" . . . when they should have spiritually matured to "meat" long ago. Shame on you all. You carry a heavy burden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
No Doctor, I am not wrong. I stated that Hebrews 5:12 pertained to spiritually immature believers. And that they should have been teachers but were instead in need of being taught. And you are off topic with your rant.
Furthermore, Hebrews 8: 8-12 quotes an Old Testament passage that as it relates to Israel deals with the Millennial Kingdom. Not to the Church Age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne
Glad you caught that. It's so easy to understand I don't see how one can get that so wrong unless they mistakenly thing the church replaced Israel.
The preachers and teachers are for our current covenant. And what a promise that is given to Israel for the future.
He caught nothing. That is the "precepts and doctrines of men" that have kept the message of Christ stagnant at the level of ignorance of our ancient ancestors ("carnal milk") for over 2000+ years. It is well past time to grow up and eat solid food . . . the full and true Gospel of Christ! Because of Christ and what God has "written in our hearts" . . . we are NOT like our ancestors. We CAN trust what is in our hearts . . . IF we sincerely use the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter). Anything in scripture that your heart would see as Evil (without using any excuses or special pleading because it supposedly is God) . . . IS Evil and has nothing to do with God!
He caught nothing. That is the "precepts and doctrines of men" that have kept the message of Christ stagnant at the level of ignorance of our ancient ancestors ("carnal milk") for over 2000+ years. It is well past time to grow up and eat solid food . . . the full and true Gospel of Christ! Because of Christ and what God has "written in our hearts" . . . we are NOT like our ancestors. We CAN trust what is in our hearts . . . IF we sincerely use the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter). Anything in scripture that your heart would see as Evil (without using any excuses or special pleading because it supposedly is God) . . . IS Evil and has nothing to do with God!
You are taking Hebrews 8:8-12 out of context and trying to apply it to the church. The New Covenant is to Israel and to Judah. Not to the church. This is clearly stated in Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31. While the basis for the New Covenant to Israel was established on the cross, the New Covenant will not be enacted until Christ returns to set up His Millennial kingdom. It is also at that time that the Abrahamic, Palestinian, and Davidic covenants will be fulfilled.
In the New Covenant to Israel every Jew will be given a new heart as per Jeremiah 32:39. This will result in a renewed relationship between God and Israel. In the Millennium there will be no need for teachers as per Jeremiah 31:34 because there will be a full and direct internal knowledge of God and His word that comes with the New Covenant.
Also, the national sin of Israel will be removed and forgiven. The national sin of Israel relates to their idolatry of the Old Testament which they never fully repented of. They went from a physical idolatry to a legalistic idolatry with regard to the law and to their tradition. This caused them to reject the Messiah with the resultant divine discipline administered to Isael. This all relates back to Deut. chapters 28 to 30 and Leviticus chapter 26.
Now while the New Covenant is to Israel and will be enacted when Christ returns to establish His kingdom, the Church can share in the blessings that are associated with the New Covenant. The Church gets a blessing from the future establishment of the New Covenant to Israel. This does not however mean that there is no need for teachers today. There is no universal internal knowledge of God today.
And no, you cannot trust your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?, is just as true today as it was at any time in the past. Man's nature has not changed.
He caught nothing. That is the "precepts and doctrines of men" that have kept the message of Christ stagnant at the level of ignorance of our ancient ancestors ("carnal milk") for over 2000+ years. It is well past time to grow up and eat solid food . . . the full and true Gospel of Christ! Because of Christ and what God has "written in our hearts" . . . we are NOT like our ancestors. We CAN trust what is in our hearts . . . IF we sincerely use the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter). Anything in scripture that your heart would see as Evil (without using any excuses or special pleading because it supposedly is God) . . . IS Evil and has nothing to do with God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
You are taking Hebrews 8:8-12 out of context and trying to apply it to the church. <snip>
And no, you cannot trust your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?, is just as true today as it was at any time in the past. Man's nature has not changed.
The ONLY context we can use is the one Christ revealed about our loving Father, period. YOU are using the OT ignorance and superstitious context to interpret Christ's Gospel . . . which is New and Good News . . . NOT Old and Bad News. Our ignorant ancestors did NOT have Christ abiding with them as the Comforter . . . as WE DO! Our ignorant ancestors did NOT have God "writing in their hearts" . . . WE DO! Their savage and barbaric hearts could not be trusted . . . OURS can IF we sincerely use the Holy Spirit (Comforter) as guide. OUR nature hasn't changed . . . but we have Christ with us and that makes all the difference in the world. Christ is the Living Word of God. Too many of you do not believe that . . . which means you do not believe and trust in Christ. You would rather trust the "precepts and doctrines of men" and the words "written in ink" . . . than to trust Christ and the truth that is "written in our hearts.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-02-2013 at 10:25 PM..
You are taking Hebrews 8:8-12 out of context and trying to apply it to the church. The New Covenant is to Israel and to Judah. Not to the church. This is clearly stated in Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31. While the basis for the New Covenant to Israel was established on the cross, the New Covenant will not be enacted until Christ returns to set up His Millennial kingdom. It is also at that time that the Abrahamic, Palestinian, and Davidic covenants will be fulfilled.
In the New Covenant to Israel every Jew will be given a new heart as per Jeremiah 32:39. This will result in a renewed relationship between God and Israel. In the Millennium there will be no need for teachers as per Jeremiah 31:34 because there will be a full and direct internal knowledge of God and His word that comes with the New Covenant.
Also, the national sin of Israel will be removed and forgiven. The national sin of Israel relates to their idolatry of the Old Testament which they never fully repented of. They went from a physical idolatry to a legalistic idolatry with regard to the law and to their tradition. This caused them to reject the Messiah with the resultant divine discipline administered to Isael. This all relates back to Deut. chapters 28 to 30 and Leviticus chapter 26.
Now while the New Covenant is to Israel and will be enacted when Christ returns to establish His kingdom, the Church can share in the blessings that are associated with the New Covenant. The Church gets a blessing from the future establishment of the New Covenant to Israel. This does not however mean that there is no need for teachers today. There is no universal internal knowledge of God today.
And no, you cannot trust your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?, is just as true today as it was at any time in the past. Man's nature has not changed.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
The ONLY context we can use is the one Christ revealed about our loving Father, period. YOU are using the OT ignorance and superstitious context to interpret Christ's Gospel . . . which is New and Good News . . . NOT Old and Bad News. Our ignorant ancestors did NOT have Christ abiding with them as the Comforter . . . as WE DO! Our ignorant ancestors did NOT have God "writing in their hearts" . . . WE DO! Their savage and barbaric hearts could not be trusted . . . OURS can IF we sincerely use the Holy Spirit (Comforter) as guide. OUR nature hasn't changed . . . but we have Christ with us and that makes all the difference in the world. Christ is the Living Word of God. Yoo many of you do not believe that . . . which means you do not believe and trust in Christ. You would rather trust the "precepts and doctrines of men" and the words "written in ink" . . . than to trust Christ and the truth that is "written in our hearts.
The Holy Spirit only uses the Bible doctrine resident in the soul of the believer to guide the believer. The believer who has not transferred any Bible doctrine into his soul has nothing with which the Holy Spirit can work. God's word is only written in the believers heart through study of God's word.
I have already shown you that until the Millennium there is no universal internal knowledge of God in the hearts of men so that there is no need of teachers.
The believer is commanded to '...grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ...' 2 Peter 3:18
And your statement that (the inference is to those who understand that the Bible is the word of God) so many of 'us' don't believe that Christ is the living Word of God is simply asinine. Further, your inference that the Bible is words written in ink and therefore is the precepts and doctrines of men is just plain stupid and reveals your rejection of the Bible despite your impotent protests to the contrary. We are done here.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-02-2013 at 10:34 PM..
The Holy Spirit only uses the Bible doctrine resident in the soul of the believer to guide the believer. The believer who has not transferred any Bible doctrine into his soul has nothing with which the Holy Spirit can work. God's word is only written in the believers heart through study of God's word.
Nonsense. Your Bible doctrine only confuses and distracts from the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is a stumbling block created by those who would presume to teach despite the caution against it. You are so immersed in complex jargon . . . hypostatic union, kenosis, Millenniums, heavenly warfare, etc.etc. . . . you have no chance to know God and develop a personal relationship with Him within your cluttered consciousness. You need to be quiet and "know that He is " . . . and FEEL the love for us all without fear and confusion. That is how you will grow in knowledge and love of God and each other, Mike.
Nonsense. Your Bible doctrine only confuses and distracts from the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is a stumbling block created by those who would presume to teach despite the caution against it. You are so immersed in complex jargon . . . hypostatic union, kenosis, Millenniums, heavenly warfare, etc.etc. . . . you have no chance to know God and develop a personal relationship with Him within your cluttered consciousness. You need to be quiet and "know that He is " . . . and FEEL the love for us all without fear and confusion. That is how you will grow in knowledge and love of God and each other, Mike.
The word of God puts the lie to your comments.
Bible doctrine is to be communicated and taught.
2 Tim. 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2] preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching) but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Deviations from sound doctrine are to be dealt with.
1 Tim. 1:3 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
Titus 1:9holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. 18] For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.
Bible doctrine nourishes the believer.
1 Tim. 4:6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"
Bible doctrine is the basis for experiential sanctification.
John 8:31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; (Jesus who is the Word of God has a word - teaching - doctrine).
John 17:17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
Bible doctrine is the basis for the believers spiritual growth. Those who reject the importance of Bible doctrine will never grow spiritually.
Nonsense. Your Bible doctrine only confuses and distracts from the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is a stumbling block created by those who would presume to teach despite the caution against it. You are so immersed in complex jargon . . . hypostatic union, kenosis, Millenniums, heavenly warfare, etc.etc. . . . you have no chance to know God and develop a personal relationship with Him within your cluttered consciousness. You need to be quiet and "know that He is " . . . and FEEL the love for us all without fear and confusion. That is how you will grow in knowledge and love of God and each other, Mike.
Mike, he's right. Don't you ever get tired of your complex religious world? Why not rest in Christ. Taste of the Lord and see that he is good. How good it is to be able to simply love one another. Why do you insist on complicating it all? Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light. He invited those who are laboring and heavy laden to come to him to find REST for their SOULS. I have never read anything restful that you've shared.
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