The Relationship between God the Father and Jesus Christ (Gomorrah, Gospels, Sodom)

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

God never changes:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes:
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God is the only Savior:
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Savior... Jude 1:12

God our Savior. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Savior. I Timothy 4:10

God my Savior. Luke 1:4

Jesus is the only Savior:
...the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Savior Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Savior of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. Titus 1:4

a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10

...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10

[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

God created the universe and earth by Himself:
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.
[u]nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10

[b]y him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

God is the first and the last
I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus is the first and the last:
Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17

God forgives sins:
[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3

"[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7

Jesus forgives sins:
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

God is our redeemer:
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16

Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

God is one:
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus and God are one:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God is the Holy One:
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)

Jesus is the Holy One:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

God is Messiah:
...unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... The mighty God, The everlasting Father... Isaiah 9:6

Jesus is Messiah:
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4:25-26

God is from everlasting:
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Psalms 93:1-2

Messiah Yeshua [Jesus] is from everlasting:
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah...out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2

Only God is glorified:
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

God glorified Jesus:
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

[A]ll men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23

But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

God is 'I am'.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14

Jesus is 'I am'.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

God is the Judge of the whole earth:
O Lord God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. Psalms 94:1-2

[Abraham to God]...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Genesis 18:25

Jesus is the Judge of the whole earth:
[T]he Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: John 5:22

Okay, I'll stop, but there are more.

Jesus Christ is God Incarnate

To deny that Jesus is God is to completely deny the scriptures.

Thanks for posting this CW2L. Aside from myself, of the 70 replies so far posted, you are the only one who has stood up for the truth. The rest of the posts have been from 3 or 4 others who all reject the deity of Christ and the trinity.

[dlcamp]

This is so special...a glimpse into the Relationship of God the Father and God the Son, during Creation:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH THEE before the world was. (John 17:5)

Here's the glimpse:

The Lord possessed me in the biginning of his way, before his works of old.

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

When he established the clouds above: when he strenghtened the fountains of the deep:

When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. (Proverbs 8:22-31)

How the Father LOVES the Son! How He must love us to sacrifice HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON FOR US!!

Is your life a SACRIFICE for Him?

David

[herefornow]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Thanks for posting this CW2L. Aside from myself, of the 70 replies so far posted, you are the only one who has stood up for the truth. The rest of the posts have been from 3 or 4 others who all reject the deity of Christ and the trinity.

Which is paganism, through and through. Pagans love their 3s and trinities. How do you think Christianity (not real Christianity) spread so easily?? In those last days, the disciples said the good news was being corrupted. 2000 years ago!!!

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Thanks for posting this CW2L. Aside from myself, of the 70 replies so far posted, you are the only one who has stood up for the truth. The rest of the posts have been from 3 or 4 others who all reject the deity of Christ and the trinity.

As far as I can tell - there are so many "truths" to pick from - you have to believe what feels right to you. Although I am interested in hearing about what you believe - it would be easier if you left out the condescension and meanness. I'm not putting you down for what you believe - why put down others for what they believe?
I don't think you can just decide to believe in something - you have to feel it in your heart. Would it be better if I said I was a Christian just so people would stop telling me I'm going to hell? Would it make you happy if I said I believed in the trinity just so you would be nice to me? I could lie - but that would make me a hypocrite and I am not capable of that.
I'm trying to understand but everything put before me leads to more questions and very few answers. I just can't believe in something that I'm not supposed to understand.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by dlcamp

This is so special...a glimpse into the Relationship of God the Father and God the Son, during Creation:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH THEE before the world was. (John 17:5)

Here's the glimpse:

The Lord possessed me in the biginning of his way, before his works of old.

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

When he established the clouds above: when he strenghtened the fountains of the deep:

When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. (Proverbs 8:22-31)

How the Father LOVES the Son! How He must love us to sacrifice HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON FOR US!!

Is your life a SACRIFICE for Him?

David

Thanks for posting dlcamp. Yes, Proverbs 8 is the commendation of wisdom. Wisdom personified. And John 17:5 is yet another passage which shows the deity of Christ and His eternal existence. The same glory which belonged to God the Father belonged to God the Son.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by dlcamp

This is so special...a glimpse into the Relationship of God the Father and God the Son, during Creation:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH THEE before the world was. (John 17:5)

Here's the glimpse:

The Lord possessed me in the biginning of his way, before his works of old.

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

When he established the clouds above: when he strenghtened the fountains of the deep:

When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. (Proverbs 8:22-31)

How the Father LOVES the Son! How He must love us to sacrifice HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON FOR US!!

Is your life a SACRIFICE for Him?

David

That still sounds like two separate entities to me. I'm sorry - I just don't see it.

[Michael Way]

Those of you who deny that Jesus Christ is God, who claim that the Scriptures never even hint that Jesus Christ is God, are in direct opposition to the following passages which state in the clearest possible terms, that He IS God? WHY DO YOU ATTEMPT TO REFUTE WHAT IS PLAINLY DECLARED TO BE TRUE? THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!!!!!!!!!

Revelation 19:11-13 establishes that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

Revelation 19:11 'And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12] And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him, which no one knows except Himself. 13] And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God.

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God (the Father and the Holy Spirit), and the Word was God (the Son). He was in the beginning with God.”

John 1:14 “And the Word (Jesus Christ) became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Compare with Philippians 2:5-8

Phil 2:5 'Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself (veiled His visible glory) taking the form of a bond-servent, and being made in the likeness of of men, 8] And beig found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becomng obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.'

Jesus Christ existed in the form of God = God.

Jesus Christ made in the likeness of men = man.

Jesus Christ is the God-Man. The unique Person of the universe.

[Ultralight]

The flesh is Jesus the the holy ghost a combination of Jesus the flesh and god. And the father is god

[SisterKat]

Does John 1 Prove Jesus is God? The Word Was Made Flesh?

This is “the” passage trinitarians swear by. It seems rather mysterious, talks in a riddle, and then says the word became flesh. If this is to show us Jesus is God, they could have saved themselves a lot of time and said in 3 words. Jesus is God. Period.

Let’s unravel this riddle: John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

If “he” was with God in the beginning, how do you explain that? God was with himself in the beginning? It clearly shows a difference between the two right here in black & white.

The Greek in this verse uses 2 different words for “The God”, and “God” in this very same passage. Here is the original Greek:

“En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos”

Theos is the word meaning “God.” It says ton theon which means “The God” and then theos which literally means “a god/divine; resembling God, being of similar nature.” Isn’t it a bit strange how it doesn’t use the definite article ‘the’ before the other God. It is making a clear distinction between “The God” and a “god” or a “divine” creature. This proves the following:

1. It makes distinction by calling The God Almighty ton theon, and Jesus Christ (son of God) Theos. It even goes on to say, “He was with Him in the beginning.” Jesus was with God. Not, “God was with God in the beginning. That would make no sense!
2. It shows Jesus was pre-existant before becoming flesh. You can’t explain why that would be if Jesus=God. Jesus was created spiritually before coming to Earth, and exists distinctly from God after his ascention.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by SisterKat

Does John 1 Prove Jesus is God? The Word Was Made Flesh?

This is “the” passage trinitarians swear by. It seems rather mysterious, talks in a riddle, and then says the word became flesh. If this is to show us Jesus is God, they could have saved themselves a lot of time and said in 3 words. Jesus is God. Period.

Let’s unravel this riddle: John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

If “he” was with God in the beginning, how do you explain that? God was with himself in the beginning? It clearly shows a difference between the two right here in black & white.

The difference between the two in black and white is that the Second Person of the trinity -Jesus Christ, is God the Son and the First Person of the trinity is God the Father. Two of the Persons of the Godhead.

The Greek in this verse uses 2 different words for “The God”, and “God” in this very same passage. Here is the original Greek:

“En arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos”

Theos is the word meaning “God.” It says ton theon which means “The God” and then theos which literally means “a god/divine; resembling God, being of similar nature.” Isn’t it a bit strange how it doesn’t use the definite article ‘the’ before the other God. It is making a clear distinction between “The God” and a “god” or a “divine” creature. This proves the following:

1. It makes distinction by calling The God Almighty ton theon, and Jesus Christ (son of God) Theos. It even goes on to say, “He was with Him in the beginning.” Jesus was with God. Not, “God was with God in the beginning. That would make no sense!

1. The distinctions in word usage are made in order to determine which Person of the Godhead is being referred to.
   
   Both Theos and theon mean 1) God, 2) a god. Theos is in the Nominative Singular Masculine while Theon is in the Accusative Singular Masculine.
   
   When the meaning of 'a god' is used, it is in reference to 1) false gods-idols, 2) human rulers, Judges, those in authority.
   
   Jesus Christ is God the Son. One of the Persons of the trinity. As the passage shows, it was Jesus Christ Himself who did the actual work of creation. Only God can create all that has been created. verse 3] All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
   

   It shows Jesus was pre-existant before becoming flesh. You can’t explain why that would be if Jesus=God. Jesus was created spiritually before coming to Earth, and exists distinctly from God after his ascention.

The deity of Jesus Christ was not created. In His humanity He was born. But in His deity, He has eternally existed. This was covered in detail in the original post.

Further, I provided 2 Philippians 2:5-7 for comparative purposes. This passage states that Jesus Christ is God.

There is only one God as shown in the following passages.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And His Redeemer, the LORD of hosts; 'I am the first and I am the last. And there is no God besides Me.

Isa 45:21 '...and there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; There in none except Me. 22] ''Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other...

Isa 46:9 ''Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.

Isa 43:10 ''You are My witnesses,'' declares the LORD, ''And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11] ''I, even I, am the LORD; And there is no savior besides Me. 12] ''It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,'' declares the LORD, ''And I am God. 13] ''Even from eternity I am He; And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?''

And this one God exists in three Persons.