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Also - I don't understand the Holy Spirit. I'm not trying to create more controversy - this is actually something that I've always wondered about. If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one being - then why are there three separate parts? It kind of makes God sound like a 3 headed monster or something. And what is the Holy spirit? If you don't believe that they are all the same entity - then what is the holy spirit? And if you do believe they are all the same - again, what is the holy spirit?
I'm sorry - I just don't get it.
Also - I don't understand the Holy Spirit. I'm not trying to create more controversy - this is actually something that I've always wondered about. If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one being - then why are there three separate parts? It kind of makes God sound like a 3 headed monster or something. And what is the Holy spirit? If you don't believe that they are all the same entity - then what is the holy spirit? And if you do believe they are all the same - again, what is the holy spirit?
I'm sorry - I just don't get it.
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is this: If God is a spirit only, then what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost)? I believe the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead (not the Trinity, since the words mean two different things), being -- unlike the Father and the Son -- a person of spirit only. It is by virtue of this quality that He is able to both fill the universe and dwell in our hearts. It is through the Holy Ghost that God communicates to mankind. We come to understand spiritual truths through the witnessing of the Holy Ghost, who communicates with us on a spiritual plane. It is through Him that we come to know the Father and the Son. This is what makes the Holy Ghost unique. It's the reason He's called the Holy Ghost.
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is this: If God is a spirit only, then what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost)? I believe the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead (not the Trinity, since the words mean two different things), being -- unlike the Father and the Son -- a person of spirit only. It is by virtue of this quality that He is able to both fill the universe and dwell in our hearts. It is through the Holy Ghost that God communicates to mankind. We come to understand spiritual truths through the witnessing of the Holy Ghost, who communicates with us on a spiritual plane. It is through Him that we come to know the Father and the Son. This is what makes the Holy Ghost unique. It's the reason He's called the Holy Ghost.
So you believe that the Holy Ghost is a separate being from God that inhabits us and is around us? Does it have a consciousness?
I disagree. I believe the relationship of the Father and the Son is indeed literal.
I believe that our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ have a true father-son relationship. The words, "Father" and "Son," in other words, mean exactly what they say and not metaphorical or symbolic of a vague metaphysical relationship, in which two beings are some how both part of a single substance. I believe that Jesus Christ is the literal, physical Son of a divine Father and a mortal mother. He was conceived in a miraculous way, but like all sons, was in the "express image of His Father's person."
The Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, and yet they are also "one." I don't interpret the word "one" to mean that they are different manifestations of one essence, but that they are one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory. It would be impossible to explain, or even to understand, the degree of their unity. It is perfect; it is absolute. They think, feel and act as "one God." Because of this perfect unity, and because they share the title of "God," we think of them together in this way. It would be impossible for us to worship one of them without also worshipping the other.
I would also not use the words "co-equal†and “co-eternal†to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son. As is again the case with all fathers and sons, the Father existed prior to His Son, although they both existed at the time the events in the Bible took place (i.e. "in the beginning" as "the beginning" relates to the creation of our universe). No son's existence precedes his father's, and Jesus Christ is no exception to this rule. I also believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. It is, however, important to understand what I mean when I use the word "subordinate." I understand that the Son holds a subordinate position in the relationship, but I do not believe Him to be an inferior being. He has all of the same attributes of divinity that His Father has. (As an example of what I mean, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. To most people's way of thinking, an ant, however, is an inferior being to a human.)
Your beliefs contradict the word of God. Your beliefs are Mormon, not Christian, not Biblical. All three members of the trinity have existed throughout all eternity past. There never was a time when they didn't all exist. Deity does not have a beginning. Deity does not come into existence. Deity cannot be born.
The Bible is clear on the eternal existence of Jesus Christ as God.
Micah 5:2 ''...From you One [Jesus] will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.'' From the days of eternity means that as God, Jesus Christ has always, eternally existed.
Colossians 1:17 'And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Jesus existed before anything and everything else. NOTHING and NO ONE existed before Jesus. That includes God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. All three Persons of the Godhead have eternally co-existed.
Jesus says in Revelation 22:13 ''I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.'' Jesus is the first which does NOT mean that He is the first created being. It means that He pre-existed all that has been created. He is the creator.
Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus is the first-born of all creation. That does not imply that the deity of Jesus Christ was born or created. It is a statement of His rank. In ancient times, in the culture of the Near East, the first-born did not necessarily refer to the oldest child. First-born didn't refer to order of birth, but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership. The statement that Jesus is the first-born of all creation refers to Jesus Christ's sovereignty over creation. Jesus Christ is LORD over all that has been created.
John 1:1 declares, ''In the beginning (which is a reference to eternity past) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2] He was in the beginning with God. 3] All things came into being by Him and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. ... 14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
There is only one God and there will never be another.
Isa 44:6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And His Redeemer, the LORD of hosts; 'I am the first and I am the last. And there is no God besides Me.
Isa 45:21 '...and there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; There in none except Me. 22] ''Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other...
Isa 46:9 ''Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.
Isa 43:10 ''You are My witnesses,'' declares the LORD, ''And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11] ''I, even I, am the LORD; And there is no savior besides Me. 12] ''It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,'' declares the LORD, ''And I am God. 13] ''Even from eternity I am He; And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?''
In John 8:58, 'Jesus said to them, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'' A statement of Jesus' eternal pre-existence.
What an insult to Jesus Christ. What a blasphemy to deny His eternal pre-existence and His co-equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
So you believe that the Holy Ghost is a separate being from God that inhabits us and is around us? Does it have a consciousness?
Yes. We see everyone as having a spirit, a spirit being nothing more than a life force. It's what gives us our individuality. A spirit, in the LDS view, is a cognizant entity that can exist either apart from a physical body (as is the case with the Holy Ghost) or can reside within a physical body, giving it life.
And Jesus answered and said, But whom do you say that I am?
Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Logos, existing in the Father as His rationality and then, by an act of His will, being generated, in consideration of the various functions by which God is related to his creation, but only on the fact that Scripture speaks of a Father, and a Son, and a Holy Spirit, each member of the Trinity being coequal with every other member, and each acting inseparably with and interpenetrating every other member, but an economic subordination within God, a division which makes the substance no longer simple."
They do not contradict the word of God, although I will admit that they contradict Plato.
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Your beliefs are Mormon, not Christian, not Biblical.
My beliefs are Mormon, Christian and biblical. They're just not yours.
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All three members of the trinity have existed throughout all eternity past. There never was a time when they didn't all exist. Deity does not have a beginning. Deity does not come into existence. Deity cannot be born.
Really? I thought Jesus Christ was born. How did He arrive on earth then?
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The Bible is clear on the eternal existence of Jesus Christ as God.
Actually, the Bible doesn't even address anything prior to "the beginning," the time prior to when the clock started ticking. But yes, it is clear that Jesus Christ was God in the beginning.
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What an insult to Jesus Christ. What a blasphemy to deny His eternal pre-existence and His co-equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
I don't deny His eternal pre-existance, and I don't deny His co-equality with the Father (in terms of their divine attributes), only in terms of His relationship with His Father, and in terms of His relationship with His Father, my beliefs are 100% biblical.
Jesus Christ refers to the Father as His God, never the other way around. He says His Father is greater than He, never the other way around.
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Anticipating your next comment, that state of unequality was only for the duration of His mortal life, may I remind that that the Son was the Father's agent in the beginning, creating our universe under the Father's direction -- not the other way around. Throughout His life, the Son prayed to His Father, did His Father's will, taught what His Father told Him to teach, etc. -- never the other way around. And today, He sits on His Father's right hand side -- not the other way around. The Father knows the day and hour that the Son will return to begin His millennial reign -- not the other way around. If God is truly unchanging, the relationship between the Father and the Son is also unchanging. It was not one way during Christ's pre-existance, a different way during His mortal life and still a different way today.
Today, as has always been the case and as will always be the case, the Son is subordinate to the Father. Furthermore, this is what was taught before Constantine decided it was time for Christians to get their act together and stop fighting about the matter. I can quote from a number of early Christian writings that show what the first and second century Christians actually believed. Your idea of orthodoxy, on the other hand, dates only back as far as the fourth century.
Yes. We see everyone as having a spirit, a spirit being nothing more than a life force. It's what gives us our individuality. A spirit, in the LDS view, is a cognizant entity that can exist either apart from a physical body (as is the case with the Holy Ghost) or can reside within a physical body, giving it life.
So, the Holy Ghost is God's spirit sort of like I have my own spirit or life force?
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