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Well, New York has a very short history of being a place where the police department is professional and trustworthy. And suspicion still runs deep because of plunger assaults and what not from the Giuliani era. But the Giulani-style crackdowns were a necessary evil that has brought New York to where it is now (sans plunger sodomy). In the late 1980s, New York was a very different place.
Los Angeles has had some of the worst police/citizen relations of any urban area in the country, but they seem to be turning a corner now. Perhaps Chicago can do the same, but it won't happen until the CPD reigns in all of this frat boy nonsense. I'm starting to think that we need to start hiring outside of the inbred gene pool of cop families that we've got now. Not that they are literally inbred, but there is a "cop culture" in this city that needs to be anihilated--and it goes back through neighborhoods for generations.
Lookout. We all know the story yet we all know that New York was able to turn around in an astonishingly short time and LA is trying to repeat that story (wih some reall success I believe). Not surprises here, check out current LAPD commish Bill Bratton's bio: William J. Bratton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interesting, isn't it? Look at the dates....
Just note Lookout that LA did the smart thing. Instead of spending millions on consultants and "long term plans" "forward looking statements" pointless PR or even trying to come up with "it's own way" LAPD simply hired a proved achiever like Bratton to repeat exactly what he did in New York. Undeniably, he could not achieve what he achieved were there no strong support from the politicians and there would be no support from politicains if "the people" had not demand a change. That's where I think Chicago fails. Everyone here likes to pretend that everything is peachy and any complaining is taken as defeatism and "bashing" of this great city. You know and I know. Any real change in such an atmosphere is very difficult.
I agree Chicago needs fresh blood but to make that possible it needs a police commisioner who would not be afraid of stepping on anybody's toes and going against the frat boys. Someone who just does not look forward to his retirement. Only then you can start cleaning up the department and try to recruit some smart college kids to fill the vacancies. In any structured organization the example (good or bad) comes from the top of the food chain. That's pretty simple.
Now, if you do not really want to follow NY example maybe you can follow LA's ?
New York City In 1994, William Bratton was appointed the 38th Commissioner of the NYPD by Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. He cooperated with Giuliani in putting the broken window theory into practice. He had success in this position, and introduced the CompStat system of tracking crimes, which proved successful in reducing crime in New York City and is still used to this day. A new tax surcharge enabled the training and deployment of around 5,000 new better-educated police officers, police decision-making was devolved to precinct level, and a backlog of 50,000 unserved warrants was cleared. The CompStat real-time police intelligence computer system was effectively introduced and integrated. Police numbers were further boosted in 1995 when New York's housing and transit police were merged into the New York Police Department. Bratton left the job in 1996 after alleged personal conflicts with Giuliani, partly due to Giuliani's opposition to some of Bratton's reforms and partly due to Giuliani's belief that Bratton was getting more credit for the reduction in crime than Giuliani was. In 1996, Bratton was featured in a business case prepared by James L. Heskett and published by Harvard Business School (Ref 9-396-293). Bratton's efforts to effectively turn around the New York City Police Department is used by many business schools as a tool for teaching organizational design and change.
Los Angeles
Bratton worked as a private consultant with Kroll Associates, also known as LAPD's Independent Monitor,[1] until his appointment by Mayor of Los AngelesJames Hahn as the LAPD's 54th Chief of Police in October 2002. Under Bratton's tenure, crime within the city had dropped for 6 consecutive years.[2] On June 19, 2007, the LA Police Commission reappointed William Bratton to a second five-year term, the first reappointment of an LAPD chief in almost twenty years. Bratton has been criticized for his extensive travel; in 2005, he was out of town for a full third of the year on both official and personal business.[3] In March 2009, Councilman Herb Wesson proposed an amendment[4] to the City Charter, allowing Bratton to serve a third consecutive term as Police Chief.
Erste, we are having a conversation right now
Unterstutzen, if you hate Chicago so much leave. You'll never really leave Chicago because you'll be patrolling these threads for every possible topic relating to Chicago.
Dritte, you can call it whatever you want, but you are bashing. Your comments are the farthest thing from general. You try to include unimportant details to make your argument seem stronger. The funny thing is they never make sense. You bring up NYC all the time. There is no point of reference for Chicago and NYC. The only reason they get compared is because they are seen as America's two urban cities. Other than that, they couldn't be any different. They each have things that appeal to different people.
Tons of issues plauge NYC. I saw on the news Thursday that Chicago's unemployment rate will be back to its precrash statisitcs by 2012, while NYC's won't be back until 2014. I'm not going to focus on anything because I don't really care what's wrong with NYC. You on the other hand cant stop bashing Chicago.
Goodbye.
Kid. Maybe when you are 17 it seems that leaving a city is such a simple thing but once you start your adult life you will discover it is not.
Few pieces of advice, first of all, do not believe everything you see on the TV. Second, nobody said this is "I love Chicago" forum when you grow up you will realize how many things in Chicago are simply subpar. Third. Do not take everything you see, hear or learn literally. Always aks questions. Always think "what if?", "why not?" It will help you a lot.
Good luck in life.
Undeniably, he could not achieve what he achieved were there no strong support from the politicians and there would be no support from politicains if "the people" had not demand a change. That's where I think Chicago fails. Everyone here likes to pretend that everything is peachy and any complaining is taken as defeatism and "bashing" of this great city. You know and I know. Any real change in such an atmosphere is very difficult.
I don't think the populace of Chicago is significantly different in its approach to "bashing" the city than New York's or Los Angeles's. I don't see what you see here. Criticism of Daley and the status quo runs pretty hot in most wards of the city, but the Machine is quite smart about keeping its grip on power. And it's the Machine that doesn't want change, not the people of Chicago. The difference is that people here can't agree on what that change is--so there is not unified front to take the machine down.
To many on the South and West Sides of the city, a mayor like Giuliani or Bloomberg represents a full-scale gentrification assault by monied white people. And until a strong candidate emerges that can get widespread support across the various racial and ethinic groups in the city, we will not see change. We almost need to bottom out first so that people get fed up. Right now we live in a city that has fewer problems than the New York of 1991, so the Machine kind of coasts by. Up until the last election, Daley could point to very obvious signs of improvement in the city. I don't think he can do that in this next election.
I think we need to simply do what LA did, with the former police cheif under Rudy... and that is the next time that cheif wants to work in a new location, court him, and offer him a job. That guy turned the LAPD around.
I don't think the populace of Chicago is significantly different in its approach to "bashing" the city than New York's or Los Angeles's. I don't see what you see here. Criticism of Daley and the status quo runs pretty hot in most wards of the city, but the Machine is quite smart about keeping its grip on power. And it's the Machine that doesn't want change, not the people of Chicago. The difference is that people here can't agree on what that change is--so there is not unified front to take the machine down.
To many on the South and West Sides of the city, a mayor like Giuliani or Bloomberg represents a full-scale gentrification assault by monied white people. And until a strong candidate emerges that can get widespread support across the various racial and ethinic groups in the city, we will not see change. We almost need to bottom out first so that people get fed up. Right now we live in a city that has fewer problems than the New York of 1991, so the Machine kind of coasts by. Up until the last election, Daley could point to very obvious signs of improvement in the city. I don't think he can do that in this next election.
I agree completely.
Chicago is so completely divided that each city block can seem like its own fiefdom. And then we have our aldermen, which is the single worst system on the planet for civil governance.
Kid. Maybe when you are 17 it seems that leaving a city is such a simple thing but once you start your adult life you will discover it is not.
Hasn't it been for you? Don't you claim to travel all across the globe to "world class cities"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dementor
Few pieces of advice, first of all, do not believe everything you see on the TV.
Does not mean much coming from you. Everything you know about Chicago is learned from the media or someone whose been to the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dementor
Second, nobody said this is "I love Chicago" forum when you grow up you will realize how many things in Chicago are simply subpar.
No one said this was an I love Chicago thread, but no one said it was a bash Chicago thread either. I know there are things that aren't perfect about Chicago, but every city has flaws. Lol, you're telling me to grow up? I've acted like more of an adult on here than you
Quote:
Originally Posted by dementor
Third. Do not take everything you see, hear or learn literally. Always aks questions. Always think "what if?", "why not?" It will help you a lot.
Lol you take everything literally. You're sickening.
Chicago is so completely divided that each city block can seem like its own fiefdom. And then we have our aldermen, which is the single worst system on the planet for civil governance.
That "Aldermanic Perogative" system of making zoning decisions is the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. It would be nice to flush out the entire city council. The system is rigged, however. The first thing a serious Aldermanic candidate does is to get their opponents thrown off the ballot by challenging signatures. But we have seen some revolts lately... Brendan Reilly was a welcome change, and I was SHOCKED when he beat Natarus. And that dip**** Beaver's daughter lost on the South Side--but it was to a Jackson.
I don't think the populace of Chicago is significantly different in its approach to "bashing" the city than New York's or Los Angeles's. I don't see what you see here. Criticism of Daley and the status quo runs pretty hot in most wards of the city, but the Machine is quite smart about keeping its grip on power. And it's the Machine that doesn't want change, not the people of Chicago. The difference is that people here can't agree on what that change is--so there is not unified front to take the machine down. To many on the South and West Sides of the city, a mayor like Giuliani or Bloomberg represents a full-scale gentrification assault by monied white people. And until a strong candidate emerges that can get widespread support across the various racial and ethinic groups in the city, we will not see change. We almost need to bottom out first so that people get fed up. Right now we live in a city that has fewer problems than the New York of 1991, so the Machine kind of coasts by. Up until the last election, Daley could point to very obvious signs of improvement in the city. I don't think he can do that in this next election.
Lookout, I heard that before, nevertheless people have governments that they can afford. This is democracy not a communist China. He is still here because the majority of people still want him here. Let's face it.
As far as Gulliani and Bloomberg are concerned.... If it was not for them (and Clinton era economic growth) New York would still be a cesspool where you had to always cary a $10 bill just in case some crackhead sticks you up right next to the subway station.
Anyone criticizng gentrification does not realize what the alternative is... Look at Detroit - once the money is gone everything and everybody is going down as well.
I really think Chicagoans are very different than New Yorkers or Californians. In Chicago suffering and silent enduring is a virtue. People here are really proud of it. Unfortunately this does not help to change anything.
Chicago is so completely divided that each city block can seem like its own fiefdom. And then we have our aldermen, which is the single worst system on the planet for civil governance.
Here you go. Isn't high time to change anything?
If perestoika was possible in Russia, if Patrick Fitzgerald could send two consecutive governors to prison change of the system does not seem that difficult.
What is difficult is to change the general mindset. If I got a dollar everytime I heard " this is Chicago, it's always been like this and nothing will ever change" I would be rich...
Almost like an example of Stockholm syndrom Chicagoans got to love their corrupt governorns and mayors (didn't you coldwine said it yourself that you do not care about corruption in city halls because it is NORMAL?) and enjoy living in a city where excuse for many things is just "this is Chicago!".
Even in this forum, anybody criticizing anything about Chicago, this was funny when Drover was called out on this, becomes a defeatist and "Chicago basher". Let's all be happy, right? This is pretty funny when some recent implants become even more pro-Chicago than native Chicagons
It reminds of the proven Bush administration's tactics of calling anybody against deployment to Iraq anti-American and unpatriotic.
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