Opinion: Chicago Will Rise Again! (Paris, Manhattan: crime, credit, hotel)

[Avondalist]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Hmmm. Have you been to Toronto recently? I think you've got that backwards. Toronto is what Chicago COULD be if it could ever get out of it's own way politically and could solve the crime and school issues that have held it back for so long. Toronto is an international city even moreso than Chicago (it's true, look up it's demographic and ethnic makeup) and has grown much more and modernized itself much more over the past couple decades.

IF Chicago and the State of Illinois ever got their act together and got the right leadership and policies in place I have no doubt that Chicago could again become a world class city surpassing the Toronto's of the world. The potential is absolutely there, but it has to solve those issues that are holding it back so the investors of the world see it as a place worth putting their money into and more people see it as a desirable place to live. As an Illinois and Chicago-area native I'd love to see it happen.

Economically Chicago is still better than Toronto, with higher wages, lower taxes, and cheaper real estate.

Toronto has grown so much because Canada's immigration system is even more liberal than the US's. Twenty percent of Canadian residents are foreign born. Since Canada has fewer than ten destination cities, with Toronto head and shoulders above the others, its numbers have swelled. However it's more the case that immigrants are packing into the GTA because their home countries are in worse shape and the door is open, than that Toronto is more desirable than Chicago. It has about the same weather as Chicago and worse economic conditions.

The growth that Toronto has seen since the 90s is impressive but I'm not sure it has increased the quality of life there. I know a lot of native Torontonians who lived in the "old Toronto" aren't happy with what's happened.

[aga412]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Hmmm. Have you been to Toronto recently? I think you've got that backwards. Toronto is what Chicago COULD be if it could ever get out of it's own way politically and could solve the crime and school issues that have held it back for so long. Toronto is an international city even moreso than Chicago (it's true, look up it's demographic and ethnic makeup) and has grown much more and modernized itself much more over the past couple decades.

IF Chicago and the State of Illinois ever got their act together and got the right leadership and policies in place I have no doubt that Chicago could again become a world class city surpassing the Toronto's of the world. The potential is absolutely there, but it has to solve those issues that are holding it back so the investors of the world see it as a place worth putting their money into and more people see it as a desirable place to live. As an Illinois and Chicago-area native I'd love to see it happen.

Yep - politics/corruption/crime will hinder the path forward for Chicago absolutely! For such a "progressive" city and administration, it sure is entrenched in its way of doing things. Instead of red line extensions to nowhere, maybe think innovatively instead of just throwing a political bone to people.

Another problem is that the poor leadership and crime/corruption issues in Illinois are causing people to leave in droves - mainly the opposition voices to our current leaders. I fear Chicago is set up for trouble in the fact that it would just become an echo chamber of everyone who thinks the same way. Amendment 1 would surely set us up for the entrenched political class and those who benefit from them would be the only people who could cut it in Chicago and Illinois long term.

[personone]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Hmmm. Have you been to Toronto recently? I think you've got that backwards. Toronto is what Chicago COULD be if it could ever get out of it's own way politically and could solve the crime and school issues that have held it back for so long. Toronto is an international city even moreso than Chicago (it's true, look up it's demographic and ethnic makeup) and has grown much more and modernized itself much more over the past couple decades.

IF Chicago and the State of Illinois ever got their act together and got the right leadership and policies in place I have no doubt that Chicago could again become a world class city surpassing the Toronto's of the world. The potential is absolutely there, but it has to solve those issues that are holding it back so the investors of the world see it as a place worth putting their money into and more people see it as a desirable place to live. As an Illinois and Chicago-area native I'd love to see it happen.

Exactly. I scoffed at the comment that “Toronto will always be inferior to Chicago” too. Toronto is a beautiful, clean, diverse and SAFE city, with tons going for it.

I think Chicago is a more robust urban city, and business-wise, has a lot larger and diverse industries, and significantly higher GDP (Chicago’s gdp is approx double Toronto’s).

But I don’t know anyone who would describe it as “inferior to Chicago.” There are tons of metrics. Safety is one where Toronto is significantly Superior to Chicago in.

[Bluefox]

This was a bit of good news for Chicago and also Milwaukee - two of the select few housing markets that aren’t completely tanking right now. Doesn’t change the fact that it still has some major issues but I definitely think it will walk away relatively unscathed by the impending bloodbath of the US housing market. Sunbelt cities and some other high growth areas (i.e. Seattle) will be scorched yet again it seems. Canada is looking pretty bleak as well.

https://investors.redfin.com/news-ev...are-holding-up

[2020's YouTube Vlog]

People talk about the perception of crime in Chicago harming it, especially in comparison to NYC and London, but if you talk to NY'ers or go to the NYC forum, there's nothing but non-stop complaints about crime in NYC post-pandemic.

[dcisive]

It's well known NYC is one of the very worst regarding crime in the entire country. They have decimated their police force (hmm sound familiar?) Nobody will elevate a NYC over Chicago. But then Chicago is a far cry from what one can consider "safe". And frankly I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

[2020's YouTube Vlog]

Originally Posted by dcisive

It's well known NYC is one of the very worst regarding crime in the entire country. They have decimated their police force (hmm sound familiar?) Nobody will elevate a NYC over Chicago. But then Chicago is a far cry from what one can consider "safe". And frankly I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

Very true, I just had that thought in my post after reading this comment from page 1:

Originally Posted by Greencheese

Your handwaving away of crime is literally the reason its a problem. Nobody cares that STL or Detroit has a higher per capita crime rate, they care about perceived safety. And the fact Chicago compares itself to those types of cities for crime but wants to be compared to London or NYC for other things is such a joke.

[personone]

Originally Posted by dcisive

It's well known NYC is one of the very worst regarding crime in the entire country. They have decimated their police force (hmm sound familiar?) Nobody will elevate a NYC over Chicago. But then Chicago is a far cry from what one can consider "safe". And frankly I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

Originally Posted by 2020's YouTube Vlog

People talk about the perception of crime in Chicago harming it, especially in comparison to NYC and London, but if you talk to NY'ers or go to the NYC forum, there's nothing but non-stop complaints about crime in NYC post-pandemic.

WRONG!

This is patently FALSE and you all are kidding yourselves. Chicago has the absolute WORST reputation for crime in the country. It is infinitely worse than NYC, which I will breakdown for you all with actual FACTS and STATISTICS.

Exhibit A……..

NYC has a population of over 8 million people compared to Chicago’s population of 2.8 million, and currently has 327 murders compared to 519 in Chicago. In other words, NYC has 5 MILLION more people than Chicago and has almost 200 FEWER murders!!!

You can look t the numbers for other violent crimes like shootings too and see the same results. Bottom line is that NYC has 5 million more people than Chicago and has less TOTAL VIOLENT CRIME. It doesn’t even need to play the “rate game” to adjust for its significantly larger population to show how much safer it is than Chicago.

NYC isn’t called “Chiraq” and didn’t have a movie named after it.

Now NYC doesn’t have a great reputation for crime, and is worse than other cities, so I can see people in NYC complaining about the crime. But that is not a barometer of safety. Chicago is much worse and instead of people just complaining on a forum, it is leading to people leaving in real life.

NYC shouldn’t even be talked about in the same sentence as Chicago as far as crime. Simply look at the numbers (FACTS) I posted above to see why.

[Nattering Heights]

With less and eventually no car traffic, Chicago could replace the el train tracks with a ground level system. Going under the tracks that filled most of the space between buildings on a wide street was like being in a tunnel. Maintaining the infrastructure of an elevated system is extra cost and energy used by the escalators.

[Vlajos]

Mod cut: Quoted post deleted.

The census estimates it undercounted Illinois by 2% or ~250K people.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...-by-state.html