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Hmmm. Have you been to Toronto recently? I think you've got that backwards. Toronto is what Chicago COULD be if it could ever get out of it's own way politically and could solve the crime and school issues that have held it back for so long. Toronto is an international city even moreso than Chicago (it's true, look up it's demographic and ethnic makeup) and has grown much more and modernized itself much more over the past couple decades.
IF Chicago and the State of Illinois ever got their act together and got the right leadership and policies in place I have no doubt that Chicago could again become a world class city surpassing the Toronto's of the world. The potential is absolutely there, but it has to solve those issues that are holding it back so the investors of the world see it as a place worth putting their money into and more people see it as a desirable place to live. As an Illinois and Chicago-area native I'd love to see it happen.
I do keep up with recent photos of Toronto but I have not been there in a long time. Maybe you’re right but the way Chicago’s tourist attractions and important buildings are in such close proximity to each other and the river, and downtown Toronto just doesn’t have the same amount of deep, historical sort of attractions. Like, going from the Picasso to the Chicago theatre to Marshall Fields to the Cultural Center (old library), like, it’s pretty much block for block
Also, as much as Toronto changes, it’s the way that Chicago’s density hugs the lakefront for miles that is better in many ways than Toronto’s clusters of high rises. That could be more subjective though, and I just prefer Chicago
Chicago is the preeminent city of the Midwest, but even so, it's slipping when it comes to business. NYC is #1 when it comes to the amount of Fortune 500 companies, followed by Houston at #2, and the city of Chicago is tied with the city of Atlanta for #3 when it comes to Fortune 500 companies based in major cities.
This is a superior complex that's outta control. I can only feel the hurt of that comment and it's such a shame because Chicago has it's good points, but a lot of Chicago posters have a superiority complex which hides their inferiority to world class cities like NYC, London, Paris, Hong Kong, and even Toronto. You do realize that Toronto is the largest city in it's own country and practically and arguable the most diverse cities in North America (along with NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and even Miami). Both cities are Alpha cities according to the GaWC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...etwork#Alpha_2), but that's where it ends.
Chicago isn't really as diverse as those cities. It's diverse, but the black population is predominately African American and the Latino population is predominately Mexican. The Asian population is smaller in comparison to states like CA, HI, NY, NJ, and WA have larger populations of Asians than IL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...nd_territories) and FL is making gains in it's Asian population to the point where FL may pass IL in the Asian population category by 2030 due to the growth of that state. When it comes to Asians in Canada, by raw number and not by percentage as BC has the largest percentage, Toronto has a chock full number of Asians to the point where there's three Chinatowns in Toronto and large Indian enclaves. And don't forget that Iranians, Afghanis, and Armenians are considered Asian.
It wouldn't surprise me that Toronto passes Chicago in not just the city's population (Toronto has 2,794,356 in comparison to Chicago's 2,746,388 and Chicago has been reported as declining in some parts of the city in comparison to Toronto, in which that city, as well as other Canadian major cities are growing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population), but in the metro area, but that would take a very long time for Toronto's metro area to reach 9 million + people that to happen. Either way, Toronto is the cultural, financial, economic and tourist capital of Canada while Chicago is just the rail, air, and commercial capital of the Midwest and not the cultural, financial, economic and tourist capital of the US (NYC has that honor)!
Unfortunately, a lot of those empty lots were the result of Chicago's segregation which not only restricted blacks to certain places within the city, but also restricted certain city services and as a result, a lot of small businesses were abandoned and a lot of homes were in disrepair to the point where they lost value. Also, the CTA when it comes to the South Side, does do a poor job of covering the South Side. The bus service is decent, but the el is only restricted as far as 63rd St on the Green Line and as far as 95/Dan Ryan on the Red Line and outside of those two lines, you have Metro, which is restricted to less frequent service since it's solely commuter rail. And as for the population, do you suggest that those empty lots be filled by the people who currently inhabit much of the South and West Sides, or gentrifiers?
A lot of the greystones look nice, but due to the conditions, it's hard to see how many of those greystones will stand the test of time. The brownstones in NYC and especially Brooklyn have appreciated to the point where it's practically impossible to but one of them on a working class salary (average $1 million). Back in the 1960's to maybe the 2000's, the brownstones were affordable, but nowadays, the typical Brooklynite who grew up in Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Flatbush, and Bushwick back in the 1970's to the 2000's cannot afford them because many of the people who inhabited those neighborhoods were either working class or middle class, not the rich and wealthy who's flipping those houses and even building the new units.
Chicago may be the birthplace of the skyscraper and the Mecca of architecture, but as far as new architecture, Miami is up and coming, and NYC will continue to build more supertalls all throughout the city to the point where even Brooklyn and Queens may beat Chicago in having the most supertalls over Chicago. I wouldn't be surprised if Brooklyn and Queens surpassed Chicago in population!
Yes, I like to have fun with my Chi-TO superiority complex. I’m not ever totally serious on here, and I’m ready to S*#t on Chicago if need be because Chicago is awful in so many ways
I don’t know how the vacant lots will be filled, or who will be there. I’m talking about several decades in the future, when patterns of gentrification could be very different in terms of economic class, ethnicity, and what-have-you
I enjoy maps of possible CTA expansions. I like the idea of extending the branches of the Green Line, maybe bring back some of the Stockyard Line or making that part of the Circle Line, and of course, I’m hoping for the Red Line Extension to finally start. There’s just so much room for improvement
People talk about the perception of crime in Chicago harming it, especially in comparison to NYC and London, but if you talk to NY'ers or go to the NYC forum, there's nothing but non-stop complaints about crime in NYC post-pandemic.
This is all relative. NYC used to be the safest big city in the country, on par with cities like San Diego. People get used to nice living. Now NYC moved from safest to "middle of the pack". Obviously people will complain with the rise in crime. But it is still nowhere near Chicago when it comes to crime, not even close.
This is all relative. NYC used to be the safest big city in the country, on par with cities like San Diego. People get used to nice living. Now NYC moved from safest to "middle of the pack". Obviously people will complain with the rise in crime. But it is still nowhere near Chicago when it comes to crime, not even close.
I am surprised you wish to tell us NYC crime is up making it not the safest large city apparently?
An ABC News/Gun Violence Archives analysis of the nation's 50 largest cities shows homicides are down nearly 5% from last year after two years of pandemic-era increases.
In Chicago, shootings are down 20% through the end of summer and homicides have fallen 16%. That means 101 fewer people were shot this year than last.
Good perhaps Chicago is finally moving in the better direction.
News of NYC crime growing.... will not stop me from visiting. Just have no plans to in retirement.
As I also note on my belief .... even prediction. I believe the Great Lakes region in particular and Midwest in general. Along with the interior East. WILL into the next decade see a higher interest in migrations again. Even a reversal eventually to it from the current sunbelt direction. All yet more future but all signs are there even on climate. Doubt it will take 3 or more decades ahead.
An ABC News/Gun Violence Archives analysis of the nation's 50 largest cities shows homicides are down nearly 5% from last year after two years of pandemic-era increases.
In Chicago, shootings are down 20% through the end of summer and homicides have fallen 16%. That means 101 fewer people were shot this year than last.
Good perhaps Chicago is finally moving in the better direction.
News of NYC crime growing.... will not stop me from visiting. Just have no plans to in retirement.
As I also note on my belief .... even prediction. I believe the Great Lakes region in particular and Midwest in general. Along with the interior East. WILL into the next decade see a higher interest in migrations again. Even a reversal eventually to it from the current sunbelt direction. All yet more future but all signs are there even on climate. Doubt it will take 3 or more decades ahead.
DavePA, even with NYC’s increase in crime, it still has less homicides and violent crime than Chicago (in terms of total numbers aim addition to rate), and that is in a city of 8 million vs 2.8 million in Chicago. So even with “News of NYC crime growing,” it is still infinitely safer than Chicago any way you slice it.
DavePA, even with NYC’s increase in crime, it still has less homicides and violent crime than Chicago (in terms of total numbers aim addition to rate), and that is in a city of 8 million vs 2.8 million in Chicago. So even with “News of NYC crime growing,” it is still infinitely safer than Chicago any way you slice it.
Do I know you personally.... again NYC was brought in and acknowleged crime is up as we in the East hear about. That was the point and I reposted ABC's study that verifies Chicago's by gun shootings (as are most homicides) are down. The right direction as the point.
If you wish to interject NYC stats and its tiny increase? It will not be me too much on another city.
This thread was created to be positive on Chicago. I post here to that effect. 2 threads are not by name happy threads. The crime one and the - dominos are starting fall - you started. You have every right to be a young pessimist on the city. Still if unhappy and a professional. There are plenty of cities to call upon someone young yet. Like those cities getting the CHI lost HQ's. You could try Arkansas where Tyson's consolidated fully back to. The DC region where Boeing went to be near the top political brass that dish out its wanted government military and other contracts....
I am happy for any city that can boast lower crime stats. Just lower homicides helps. NYC has been in decades of gentrification. Sad it too gets upticks in crime and their forum goes into its political blame-game too. ALL SHOULD GET OUT AND VOTE. LA thru to Seattle have their rising issues. Sunbelt cities also as their forums note. If stats show a drop in crime there too? It is awesome to note with a link. All some of us prefer to do by far. Defending a city as you did NYC is fine too.
I like giving LA some luv too. It is still moving forward despite its issues. The Olympics to come in a few years also. A subway under construction too. SF still lots to have pride in... pun intended. Seattle I read bouncing back also after a terrible Covid era.
Chicago rising again is yet future. I merely agree and for the rust-belt/Great Lakes region.
In addition to getting out and vote, LeafyDenseCities, I encourage anyone reading this who doesn’t post here to have some understanding of the Joseph McCarthy Era. Because we have a terminal fair voting issue in non-democratic Chicago where Marxists and what have you profit from disappearing votes. There is still a minority of individuals who don’t know how the Daley machine helped Kennedy in when Nixon won the 1960 election and think that classical liberalism has created a the illusion of liberal Utopia watching a talking head president who makes George W Bush look like Einstein. Pritzker could yield to an upset if the price is right, imo
Declining fertility rates
Work from home
Online entertainment and shopping
Declining immigration?
I think that the first three are ongoing and emerging realities that will make it hard for all but a few cities to grow. Especially legacy cities with centralized employment, shopping, and entertainment. There's just not as much reason to live there as there was just a decade ago. If immigration recovers, then maybe many cities go back to the relatively rapid growth of the 90's.
OTOH the thing that may flip things the other way is the decline of fossil fuel. As relations tighten and fossil fuels decrease and currently without the infrastructure to support a replacement there will be a gap in time of a decade or two where living in cities may be preferable. Living in the exurbs may be great until you don't have the infrastructure to support online shopping, daily errands, and maybe not even wfh.
but in the metro area, but that would take a very long time for Toronto's metro area to reach 9 million + people that to happen. Either way, Toronto is the cultural, financial, economic and tourist capital of Canada while Chicago is just the rail, air, and commercial capital of the Midwest and not the cultural, financial, economic and tourist capital of the US (NYC has that honor)!
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Actually the metro area of Toronto and Chicagoland aren't as far apart as you think already. The Greater Golden Horseshoe is a much better comparison to the greater chicago area than the Typical metro population metrics you see.
You can't apply a MSA or CSA measure in comparison to Canadian Measures such as CMA. Toronto anchors a region with 9.8 million people in the Greater Golden horseshoe.
This region is 12100 sq miles in extended form and 3800 sq miles in its core with 7.8 million people in 3800 sq miles (which would put it somewhere a bit less than your MSA). Its reasonable to conclude if Toronto used MSA - its population would be around 8.5 million people and its CSA around 9.5 million.
The Chicago Naperville CSA is 9.9 million in 10800 sq miles and its MSA is 9.6 million. I couldn't find the area of Chicago's MSA.
My point is - if you look at these two cities as anchors of a larger region - the population is not too far apart. The main difference is the Toronto region is growing by over 100K per year and Chicago is not. If growth rates continue as they have the last few decades - Toronto metro area should surpass Chicago's in about a decade if we attempt to apply apples to apples comparisons instead of assuming a CMA measure is the same as the one's the U.S uses in MSA and CSA.
This is why I laugh at GDP comparisons I see in here. What GDP are you comparing - Chicago CSA to Toronto CMA. That would be wrong.
Northwest Indiana is Chicago's secret weapon. NYC LA SF Seattle do NOT have a part of their metro located on a RED State, as does Chicago.
NWI will continue to rise for decades to come, mark my words. And this will be very good for Chicagoland. Especially the South Side.
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