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I agree with most of this. Although I would put Political Corruption AND Crime at equal levels, and to be honest, I think that crime is the bigger issue.
Political corruption has been at the city’s core forever. What is driving people away from the city since 2020 has not been political corruption. It has been the brazen amounts of crime, which continues to increase and has noticeably spread to the downtown core and north side where it wasn’t nearly as visible, pre-2020.
Some of that is indirectly due to political corruption (i.e. having Kim Foxx and Lightfoot in office), so I can see putting them together. But the biggest Direct Problem that Chicago needs to solve is Crime.
The rose colored glasses people wear about both Chicago and Illinois on the whole always mystifies me. I understand being fair minded about the pros and cons, but to me the cons by far and away outweigh the pros. The rose colored glasses people handwave the cons and act like Chicago is the best place on planet earth.
The rose colored glasses people wear about both Chicago and Illinois on the whole always mystifies me. I understand being fair minded about the pros and cons, but to me the cons by far and away outweigh the pros. The rose colored glasses people handwave the cons and act like Chicago is the best place on planet earth.
Yeah that about covers it. About the ONLY way one would justify their responses is if they have family there and can't leave, or they have no other options to leave as they'd lose the investment of a home or have no income to support a move. That about covers the only legitimate reasons to try to justify living in those environs any further. Paying those absurd tax levels is crazy enough. The corrupt fools running that city and state aren't going anywhere this I can tell you for certain. They are like a well seated cancer with no treatment in site.
The rose colored glasses people wear about both Chicago and Illinois on the whole always mystifies me. I understand being fair minded about the pros and cons, but to me the cons by far and away outweigh the pros. The rose colored glasses people handwave the cons and act like Chicago is the best place on planet earth.
I believe Chicago has worn out it’s welcome. It will always be a world-class city because it’s the biggest city in the Midwest and it’s title as a rail and air hub. Even if Chicago and IL continues to lose population, nothing will really change, but other cities will come up and take some of Chicago’s luster:
Toronto: it’s the largest city in Canada, and the banking, financial and commercial center of that country, as well as the center for the English-speaking media and intelligentsia. Being close enough to Niagara Falls, which also has gambling has made Toronto the leading tourist city for Canada and it has North America’s tallest structure, the CN Tower.
Houston: the energy center for North America, as most of the petroleum companies have headquartered in the city of Houston or nearby it. Also, Houston has the sixth largest concentration of consulates in the US and the second largest concentration of Fortune 500 companies in America with 21, while Chicago has 15, with a possibility of Boeing moving just outside DC in NoVA.
Atlanta: I won’t call Atlanta “the black mecca” or “the black capital” but Atlanta is quickly becoming a major metropolitan area. Home to the world’s busiest airport (ATL), and a major educational center with Georgia Tech and the smaller black colleges (Morehouse, Spelman, etc.). Atlanta passed Chicago for having the second largest black population in it’s metropolitan area only behind NYC while GA has the third largest black population only behind TX and FL. And Atlanta is quickly becoming a major corporate center with companies such as Coca-Cola, Delta, UPS, and Georgia-Pacific calling Atlanta home.
Miami: the capital of Latin America and the hub of the Americas, Miami has the best year-round weather, beaches, and nightlife amongst American cities. It hosts the fifth largest consular body in the U.S. and has one of the busiest international airports in the country. It has the largest cruise ship fleet in the US as well. It’s also an emerging center of finance, commerce, healthcare, hi-tech, and crypto and slowly becoming a major cosmopolitan center along with other cities like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
I believe Chicago has worn out it’s welcome. It will always be a world-class city because it’s the biggest city in the Midwest and it’s title as a rail and air hub. Even if Chicago and IL continues to lose population, nothing will really change, but other cities will come up and take some of Chicago’s luster:
Toronto: it’s the largest city in Canada, and the banking, financial and commercial center of that country, as well as the center for the English-speaking media and intelligentsia. Being close enough to Niagara Falls, which also has gambling has made Toronto the leading tourist city for Canada and it has North America’s tallest structure, the CN Tower.
Houston: the energy center for North America, as most of the petroleum companies have headquartered in the city of Houston or nearby it. Also, Houston has the sixth largest concentration of consulates in the US and the second largest concentration of Fortune 500 companies in America with 21, while Chicago has 15, with a possibility of Boeing moving just outside DC in NoVA.
Atlanta: I won’t call Atlanta “the black mecca” or “the black capital” but Atlanta is quickly becoming a major metropolitan area. Home to the world’s busiest airport (ATL), and a major educational center with Georgia Tech and the smaller black colleges (Morehouse, Spelman, etc.). Atlanta passed Chicago for having the second largest black population in it’s metropolitan area only behind NYC while GA has the third largest black population only behind TX and FL. And Atlanta is quickly becoming a major corporate center with companies such as Coca-Cola, Delta, UPS, and Georgia-Pacific calling Atlanta home.
Miami: the capital of Latin America and the hub of the Americas, Miami has the best year-round weather, beaches, and nightlife amongst American cities. It hosts the fifth largest consular body in the U.S. and has one of the busiest international airports in the country. It has the largest cruise ship fleet in the US as well. It’s also an emerging center of finance, commerce, healthcare, hi-tech, and crypto and slowly becoming a major cosmopolitan center along with other cities like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
Houston and Atlanta have crime issues that rival Chicago's, if not, exceed it. They are publicized so it's not just a per capita thing. Transportation is a problem too; can't just rely on cars.
Miami and Toronto I agree with. But man Miami has garbage pay in its industries, let alone sea level issues.
I believe Chicago has worn out it’s welcome. It will always be a world-class city because it’s the biggest city in the Midwest and it’s title as a rail and air hub. Even if Chicago and IL continues to lose population, nothing will really change, but other cities will come up and take some of Chicago’s luster:
Toronto: it’s the largest city in Canada, and the banking, financial and commercial center of that country, as well as the center for the English-speaking media and intelligentsia. Being close enough to Niagara Falls, which also has gambling has made Toronto the leading tourist city for Canada and it has North America’s tallest structure, the CN Tower.
Houston: the energy center for North America, as most of the petroleum companies have headquartered in the city of Houston or nearby it. Also, Houston has the sixth largest concentration of consulates in the US and the second largest concentration of Fortune 500 companies in America with 21, while Chicago has 15, with a possibility of Boeing moving just outside DC in NoVA.
Atlanta: I won’t call Atlanta “the black mecca” or “the black capital” but Atlanta is quickly becoming a major metropolitan area. Home to the world’s busiest airport (ATL), and a major educational center with Georgia Tech and the smaller black colleges (Morehouse, Spelman, etc.). Atlanta passed Chicago for having the second largest black population in it’s metropolitan area only behind NYC while GA has the third largest black population only behind TX and FL. And Atlanta is quickly becoming a major corporate center with companies such as Coca-Cola, Delta, UPS, and Georgia-Pacific calling Atlanta home.
Miami: the capital of Latin America and the hub of the Americas, Miami has the best year-round weather, beaches, and nightlife amongst American cities. It hosts the fifth largest consular body in the U.S. and has one of the busiest international airports in the country. It has the largest cruise ship fleet in the US as well. It’s also an emerging center of finance, commerce, healthcare, hi-tech, and crypto and slowly becoming a major cosmopolitan center along with other cities like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
I see nothing wrong with Chicago getting some "love by new people" perhaps calling it home as young profesdionals. Why shouldn't they? Some praise is not ignoring the issues. Just not going TOXIC on doom and gloom. Why is that a issue with some who by politics and yes crime issues and feeling they are not making money on homes they sold in the past or took some losses past years. Taxes still high in a Texas too. There is still great housing in Chicago and it looks great today that never really declined. These older homes will seve new generations. Chicago has such good quality old housing. Infill compare a lot of it to what other cities get. Much more brick and cinderblock construction vs stick wood alone on slabs. The stretches of bungalow-belt and others well-build and well-constructed all though the 20th century in brick.
I checked out Redfin and Zillow realtors a few weeks ago and saved these....
How about "old Houston home". This a inner-loop rebuilding neighborhood around the core region is a example looking cute but small and not on a slab though it has the craw-space covered. All the new construction all around it has these stand-outs of those who would not sell. Now a few times more value in the lot.... not much value is really in the home itself. It is the lot. It's a 725 Sq/Ft home built in 1940..... that is what a studio Apt size?
1041 W 22nd St, Houston, TX - 2 beds/1 bath
2 beds, 1 bath, 728 sq. ft. house located at 1041 W 22nd St, Houston, TX 77008. View sales history, tax history,...
How about this NEW much larger single home across the street built in 2016.
($643,909) - Refin currrent valuation and bought for $535,000 in 2020. A 2,612 Sq/Ft home on a size lot like the Chicago standard..... in Houston.
1016 W 22nd St, Houston, TX 77008 - 3 beds/2.5 baths 3 beds, 2.5 baths,
2612 sq. ft. house located at 1016 W 22nd St, Houston, TX 77008 sold on Dec 30, 2020 for ($535,000)
Yet in Chicago I "admired" this Belmont-Central home a couple or so weeks ago when I looked at Refin and Zillow listings. Full-finished basement looking awesome and rest of home upgrades and need back porch and patio with yard. A "Classic" 1950s home probably with the steel-beam across the base as they were built with and fully brick. SALE NOW PENDING. These are "perfect homes to me for a urban life-style" and is it more costly then the in-city Houston homes for the quality and upgrades you get?
2634 N Mason Ave, Chicago, IL 60639 - 4 beds/2 baths For Sale:
4 beds, 2 baths ∙ 1100 sq/ft. w 1,050 sq/ft full finished basement.∙ 2634 N Mason Ave, Chicago, IL 60639 ∙ ($369,900) ∙ SALE PENDING.
Fully upgraded and "awesome finished basement".... pictures in Redfin link.
The DEBT of Texas sure surprises me... a booming fastest-growing state booming in debt to move up on Illinois.
- By current debt clock calculations.
Texas debt at $10,928 per Texan......
Illinois debt at $12,928 per Illinoisan.
Illinois had many corrupt decades as a large city to get there...... Texas got almost here not corrupt I guess? What happens when the migrations slow with adding new taxes to coffers?
There will not be another Chicago that is a Chicago. Stealing is exactly what many cities and states to lure what others have aim to do and have been with lucrative business deals. Ask Elon Musk asking for more tax breaks currently to build his battery plant.
Yet Texans still claiming they need Tax Relief. It is real estate taxes that finance most of their schools and roads that isn't from the feds. They have their own pension debt too rest assured.
Slabs should be cheaper to build and in value vs full basement and foundations up north. Sure land can be cheaper elsewhere
Still the future just may be in the Midwest by the end of the decade onward or I would predict the mass migration to the sunbelt will slow and could reverse and not just in 50s yrs from now. Already some cities in the lower Midwest have seen some growth back. All have the similar stresses a Chicago has. One can say still not the level of crime.... well level of murders is not all crime also. Even a Houston to a Oklahoma City have crime that would surprise as it is not as much in the National Media. Shootings rule in the media and sadly mass shootings are getting headlines around the Nation.
On Toronto's stellar growth - that began when our US cities were getting to their worst declines. It is by intense Asian immigration. Already it hit 60% immigrants. Its it zoned totally as Chicago. Just its zoning for high-rises and higher are for just that and its high immigration fueling the frenzie is far more in that 1/4 of the city they are zoned for.... while still protecting the rest of the 3/4's of the city that are SFH's. Basically the average SFH price has hit 1-million $.
Average now over 1-million for a SFH in 90% of Toronto suburbs. Already in 2021.....
Canadians still love them some suburban living just as much. The high-rise to higher is necessary for such growth there as a high amount of protected forest outside the city also.
A Chicago - you have still so many options in neighborhoods. I was reading a link in even how roomates can have a advantage to share a bungalow and buy it actually over just renting. Makes some sense or buy a 2-flat together and already have separate units.
A Atlanta - did not have to steal the listed corporations you made like Coke and Delta and some abhor the mention of CNN. Still sure their aim is to steal whatever they can whether it is from NYC or Chicago or LA. They could care less then cry when a Charlotte steals by mergers its banks and they had a thread crying about it.
A Houston - will it ever be a Chicago of the south. I am surprised these booming fast-growing cities "do not" make Global Ranks even in the top 20 in some listings. All the growth and boasting and the Global Rank is not there yet. Atlanta is moving up though and others and threatening the legacy powers just lowers a NYC, LA and Chicago for other world cities to rise above them when a whole nation has all in one main city even. In the US our cities steal and we sprawl even more then. More infrastructure.
A Miami - will have other issues in the future. Can you imagine if IAN hit Miami Beach instead of Sanibel Island? and Miami proper instead of Ft Myers?
"Kearney Global Ranking" of cities - also has a Future Rank list of cities. Sadly even a NYC drops out of its top 10 future list. Why..... it reasons over so many American cities aim to steal any corporate expansion to HQ's they can. All the bashing a SF gets yet it can still incubate new companies in its metro that replace those stolen for cheaper and incentives to lure them.
On Health/tech institutions - has anyone heard what Baltimore even has or Philadelphia and even a Cleveland in medical institutions. Add cities with key Universities and acclaim over all their histories. Legacy does not die nor a University can get stolen. You cannot build a new University of Chicago. Add Northwestern not going anywhere even Loyola.
Last edited by LeafyDenseCities; 10-03-2022 at 08:44 PM..
Houston and Atlanta have crime issues that rival Chicago's, if not, exceed it. They are publicized so it's not just a per capita thing. Transportation is a problem too; can't just rely on cars.
Miami and Toronto I agree with. But man Miami has garbage pay in its industries, let alone sea level issues.
Atlanta at least does have a subway system(MARTA), and buses. The only negative about MARTA, is that due to NIMBYs, the lines for MARTA weren't expanded as far out as was originally proposed. I.e. a northwest MARTA line(to about the area where Cumberland Mall is now) was once proposed, but never was built. Although there is MARTA bus service, that goes out that way. Certain public transit agencies like Gwinnett County Transit, do serve areas just outside of MARTA's reach.
I know Miami has Metrorail(subway system), and commuter rail(Tri Rail). Plus Brightline also operates commuter rail service, with eventual plans to expand service northwest to Orlando. Miami's subway system I'm pretty sure, was extended sometime in the 2000s or 2010s to now go to Miami's airport.
Houston does have a light rail system, but it's just a northeast to southwest line. Neither of the airports are served by that light rail line, though the Texans stadium has a nearby stop.
You are right about Atlanta and Houston, having crime issues. That said, neither city is totally bad, and they do good on some aspects(Atlanta having a lot of things to do, Houston at least having a good restaurant scene). But as for things to do and the quality of life, I suspect Chicago would still be ahead slightly. That said, some of the things you can find in these other cities, you wouldn't find as much in Chicago. I.e. Tex Mex food which I suspect would be more common in Houston, though Chuy's(Tex Mex chain) has an Orland Park location.
Chicago is fine for the most part, but could use better political leadership. And of course don't need to start about Lightfoot and Foxx, as we all know their issues.
Absolutely. Chicago has a nasty reputation for crime across the nation (whether it deserves it or not is a different story) and that perception will always hinder the city. Fixing crime would be key to making Chicago boom again.
This is 100% correct. Honestly, while some people will mention the cold winters, fewer people are doing so. Crime is the #1 thing holding Chicago back. And it won't get better soon - it's not at the peak yet.
Frankly I would find Florida or other places in the deep south utterly miserable. The heat is out of control.
My son lived in Titusville from April to September. He said there were almost daily huge storms, 100+ heat index, and he would leave his work boots outside to "dry" and they were just as wet in the morning. He said it was miserable. No thanks. I'll take a few bitter weeks of cold a year over that kind of spring/summer. And I think more people will starting to realize this too.
This is 100% correct. Honestly, while some people will mention the cold winters, fewer people are doing so. Crime is the #1 thing holding Chicago back. And it won't get better soon - it's not at the peak yet.
Frankly I would find Florida or other places in the deep south utterly miserable. The heat is out of control.
My son lived in Titusville from April to September. He said there were almost daily huge storms, 100+ heat index, and he would leave his work boots outside to "dry" and they were just as wet in the morning. He said it was miserable. No thanks. I'll take a few bitter weeks of cold a year over that kind of spring/summer. And I think more people will starting to realize this too.
Yup. The cold weather has been a staple of Chicago for decades. When the city was at peak popularity, it was just a part of life. People don't love it, but it makes the spring/summer that much more enjoyable.
It is 100% Crime that is making people move out. I have 2 very successful colleagues (physician-scientists in academics). Both moved to Chicago around 2012, specifically because of "Chicago" and all the city had to offer.
During the first year of the pandemic in 2020 after the crime started become rampant downtown and in the surrounding areas, they both began looking for new jobs specifically so they could get out of Chicago because of what the city has become. Both went to warmer mid-sized cities with better COL (and much safer). I have a handful of other colleagues that are starting the recruitment process for new positions to move out of Chicago, and will eventually do so within the next year or so.
Each and every one of my colleagues are leaving specifically due to CRIME. It's not weather, not even politics/political corruption. It's specifically CRIME.
I've been saying for years, that this is the number 1 thing holding the city back. Heck, it even was leaked that crime was a real negative in the city's bid for Amazon. Until the city gets crime under control, the reputation of the city and the negative impacts of that reputation will continue to suffer.
Cold weather, politics/political corruption, location, etc are all window dressing to avoid the huge elephant in the room.....CRIME
I'd say more specifically it's the distribution of crime. Crime was statistically worse here during the big renaissance of 1985-2000. But the difference there was that the crime was mostly confined to the 'hoods of the south and west sides. Anybody from there who got out of line, or even looked like they did not belong, in a nice or gentrifying area would get smacked down in short order by much more permissive and less monitored policing practices.
Today, that is obviously not the case and many criminals see the nice areas as opportunity now. More permissive prosecutorial decisions and restrictions on police have made criminals bolder. I'm not here to debate the merits of that, but it explains the difference in feel from 20-25 years ago when crime rates were higher but the City was growing faster.
I'd say more specifically it's the distribution of crime. Crime was statistically worse here during the big renaissance of 1985-2000. But the difference there was that the crime was mostly confined to the 'hoods of the south and west sides. Anybody from there who got out of line, or even looked like they did not belong, in a nice or gentrifying area would get smacked down in short order by much more permissive and less monitored policing practices.
Today, that is obviously not the case and many criminals see the nice areas as opportunity now. More permissive prosecutorial decisions and restrictions on police have made criminals bolder. I'm not here to debate the merits of that, but it explains the difference in feel from 20-25 years ago when crime rates were higher but the City was growing faster.
Yup, I totally agree. It is more specifically the fact that the crime is now in the "downtown core" and "north side" that is the issue, and which has many (at least that I know) fleeing. Because for years, crime has been really bad in the bad neighborhoods (and the overall crime rate has even been worse at times).
And it is kind of hypocritical (maybe not the right word) that it is now that we are reacting to it (now that it has hit the "nice" areas). I'm guilty of that myself. When the crime was more restricted to the South and West sides years ago, and the downtown core and north side were relatively untouched, while I cared about crime, since it was "far away" I wasn't as up in arms as I am now that it is "hitting close to home." So I am definitely guilty of this attitude.
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