2020 Election: Is illinois really a Blue state? (Chicago, DeKalb: limousine, buying)

[Avondalist]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Services offered to whom? The only service I get from the state, is to drive on the roads and bridges, which are congested and falling apart. Oh, yeah, and often tolled, and we pay near the highest fuel taxes in the nation (at least in Cook County), which is supposed to pay for all the roads and bridges.

I did go to school when I was a kid, but I assume that was paid for by the taxes my parents paid at the time. So where do my taxes currently go? Red Light Cameras? I'm just not seeing it. Unless, of course, it's to pay above-average pensions to all our dedicated public worker unions, or to pay for the prison time for so many of our former governors (hopefully, the current one is smart enough to stay out of the can, I'm betting that guy can eat a lot of caviar and I'd hate to pay for that as well).

Bottom line, where do all the money go, Jim?

Most of the "extra" spending goes to the pay and benefits of current and retired public employees. Extra meaning above what places like Indiana spend. Now I will agree that paying for gold plated retiree benefits provides no extra services to the taxpayer. I used the term services mostly as a term of art, and a little tongue in cheek. You could just use the word "spending" if you prefer.

I know before I lived elsewhere having grown up in the Chicago area, I did not realize how good some of the public services we have here are. I just assumed the services were the same everywhere.

Chicago area schools (obv not zoned CPS) can be quite good and well funded. Teacher salaries are high. This is probably the number one good service living in a Chicago suburb and paying property taxes gets you.

If you live in a decent suburb you can buy a home for less than $500k and get excellent schools by national standards and access to metro area employment. It's a great deal by national standards, and even moreso by international standards. Can you do better? Yes, living in some place like western Michigan or Wisconsin you could get comparable schools and even cheaper real estate. However as far as big cities go Chicago is a great deal.

Of course those public services cost money. The big difference between Illinois and many other states is the degree to which we fudge our math. We underfund state and local government relative to what we expect of it, using debt to bridge the gap. This is what I meant when I said Illinois was "high services, low tax". There are blue states that are not in such terrible financial shape as Illinois, mostly because the voters in those states are more willing to tolerate funding the high services they expect from government. Places such as New York and Minnesota.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Avondalist

Most of the "extra" spending goes to the pay and benefits of current and retired public employees. Extra meaning above what places like Indiana spend. Now I will agree that paying for gold plated retiree benefits provides no extra services to the taxpayer. I used the term services mostly as a term of art, and a little tongue in cheek. You could just use the word "spending" if you prefer.

I know before I lived elsewhere having grown up in the Chicago area, I did not realize how good some of the public services we have here are. I just assumed the services were the same everywhere.

Chicago area schools (obv not zoned CPS) can be quite good and well funded. Teacher salaries are high. This is probably the number one good service living in a Chicago suburb and paying property taxes gets you.

If you live in a decent suburb you can buy a home for less than $500k and get excellent schools by national standards and access to metro area employment. It's a great deal by national standards, and even moreso by international standards. Can you do better? Yes, living in some place like western Michigan or Wisconsin you could get comparable schools and even cheaper real estate. However as far as big cities go Chicago is a great deal.

Of course those public services cost money. The big difference between Illinois and many other states is the degree to which we fudge our math. We underfund state and local government relative to what we expect of it, using debt to bridge the gap. This is what I meant when I said Illinois was "high services, low tax". There are blue states that are not in such terrible financial shape as Illinois, mostly because the voters in those states are more willing to tolerate funding the high services they expect from government. Places such as New York and Minnesota.

I don't know from Indiana, I've always used Wisconsin as an example of a well (at least better) run state, you can see it in the quality of their roads, rest stops, DNR, hospitals, parks, and they still have adequate protections for their state and county employees. They have taxes on the upper end of the scale but are still lower than IL's, but what they don't have, is "The Chicago Way".

JB is going to make cuts due to the failure of the Fair Tax, but I guarantee he will choose cuts designed to hurt middle-class taxpayers the worst, like policing, roads, DMV locations, etc., in order to make tax increases more palatable to the people who will actually be paying for it. He will avoid to the greatest extent possible annoying his base - Teacher's unions, Local 150 Operating Engineers, BLM, etc.. With respect to cities, I'd use Dallas as a comparison to Chicago; Texas is booming, with significantly lower taxes to boot, and the weather is more tolerable (you're trading hotter, muggier summers for balmy winter temperatures and no snow, and the last time I looked, you don't have to shovel sunshine (and your cars don't rust out, there's less road maintenance, etc.). I'm not sure it'll be Texas for me, but it sure won't be IL for much longer.

[Nodpete]

It's obvious that IL. is a blue State, just look at all the mismanagement, debt, taxes, crooked politicians, indicted politicians, cronyism, welfare, crime, unemployment, the list goes on and on. How can there be any doubt ?

[Robert9]

Originally Posted by Nodpete

It's obvious that IL. is a blue State, just look at all the mismanagement, debt, taxes, crooked politicians, indicted politicians, cronyism, welfare, crime, unemployment, the list goes on and on. How can there be any doubt ?

Sad, but true. That is because of the voters in the Chicago area. Is it any wonder the rest of Illinois wants to be separated from the Chicago area and have been fighting for that for so long. I wish it would happen. They should be allowd to be separate from the craphole that is the Chicago area

[purplesky]

It's depressingly blue. When I moved to Schaumburg 20 years ago, there were republican and democrat state officials running when I voted. Now, some of the D's don't even have an R opposing them. Also, many of the Rs are RINOs

[reneeh63]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

via chicago: Great map, do you have a link for it? I want to be able to stare at each version (counties versus population centers) for longer than it allows one to do before changing over. One outlier I see is Phoenix, a large, Republican population center that dominates Arizona. So I have to ask, if this map is accurate, how does one explain the 2020 Presidential results, where Arizona has (purportedly) turned Blue?

Phoenix - rich retirees?

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by reneeh63

Phoenix - rich retirees?

Arizona just approved a 77% increase on state income tax above $250k, so say goodbye to a large chunk of wealthy retirees. Florida there they go.

[Kevroqs]

It's mainly blue in the Crook county/Chicago area where Obama and his thugs were from

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by Kevroqs

It's mainly blue in the Crook county/Chicago area where Obama and his thugs were from

Bush campaigned here in 2000 and 2004, if you can believe it. We've been a Democratic given since then. We have a lot of delegates given our size, so we see the presidential contenders during the primaries but not thereafter.

[DamenVChicago]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

Bush campaigned here in 2000 and 2004, if you can believe it. We've been a Democratic given since then. We have a lot of delegates given our size, so we see the presidential contenders during the primaries but not thereafter.

Trump *attempted* to have a rally in Chicago in early 2016. Needless to say, it ended up getting shut down before even starting from protests.