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It's not my fault you're about to go into a chant. What I said is completely true, and I stand by it.
You're making a very popular argument with Chicago boosters....intentionally exclude the gentrified neighborhoods. Then pretend gentrifying neighborhoods like Avondale, Pilsen, Logan Square or Albany Park are somehow the "real Chicago" that everyone should aspire to see. Yeah, Pilsen is probably a lot more interesting than River North because they have more varieties of authentic tacos to choose from (authentic tacos are nothing more than cubic meat, lots of cilantro/onion, with corn tortilla only, and usually some weird green salsa lol).
Maybe visitors should take a stroll through Lawndale instead. Anyone from Indianapolis has probably seen an old boring neighborhood, considering that's what their entire town basically is.
When people goto LA, they generally want to see West LA, Hollywood, Santa Monica. No one is visiting to see Van Nuys for example. Miami, they want to see South Beach, Wynwood, or Brickell. Again, no one is visiting to check out Liberty City. Only Chicago makes that argument.
It lets you know how boring Chicago is when you have to exclude what are widely regarded as your city's best neighborhoods to prove any excitement.
Oh I see you what you are now, nothing more than something that starts with a "t" and ends with an "l". Good, glad I don't have to waste my time talking to you anymore.
And by the way, Mexican food (something even more prevalent in LA) is more than just tacos, but I guess ignorant people wouldn't know that.
Chicago has the trappings of a big international city (NY, LA, Paris, London, Tokyo) in terms of shopping, fine dining, direct air travel, but it's very culturally midwestern to the point it's irreversible.
What's your point of comparison? The Great Lakes? Or the Lower Midwest? Because people in Indiana, most of Ohio outside of Cleveland, most of Illinois, almost all of Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, and Nebraska pretty much have insignificant numbers of non-Anglo European ethnic groups.
Are any of the aforementioned states heavily Polish, Irish, Italian, Greek, Jewish, Serbo-Croat, or Romanian? Only the state of Michigan compares to Chicago in its non-Anglo European ethnic groups and even they are concentrated around Detroit, though the Dutch and Swedes inhabit Western Michigan, too. Same goes with Minnesota, with its large Scandinavian population. If by Midwest you mean either the Upper Midwest OR the Great Lakes state of Michigan, then yes, Chicago is culturally Midwestern. But the Upper Midwest is an anomaly in its culture so much that it is considered a subset of the Midwest, NOT an accurate representation.
So, the rest of the Midwest that isn't in the far North doesn't have the same ethnic groups. So, fail. What about dialect? Well, I don't know how many Midwesterners speak in Chicago accents. Isn't the Midwest's claim to fame that they speak like newscasters or that they speak "Standard American English"? Oh, that's right. Because outside of the Great Lakes and parts of Minnesota and a sliver of South Dakota, nobody in the Midwest speaks like Chicagoans do. Could be because they didn't have the non-Anglo immigrant population to shape their dialect? Well, not could. That's exactly why, actually. Can't have the same culture if you don't have the same...culture. I know that sounds redundant, but I'd like to know how Eastern European festivals have found their way to Nebraska or Central Indiana.
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North face jackets everywhere,
It's cold here. I suppose you think no one else in the country wears winter clothing?
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sports fanaticism to the point it's basically religion,
Because Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Boston, and New York don't do this?...
Guessing you've never ventured to any Philly sports event or heard of rioting Bostonians.
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pub culture over lounge,
Bull. Absolute bull. You have no basis in this. In fact, Chicago's heavily prominent Eastern European population (which makes up a LARGE percentage of our Whites) is NOTORIOUS for their love of House music and nightclubs. It's practically their lifestyle. Oh yeah, can a city that INVENTED HOUSE MUSIC be called a city that favors pub culture over lounge? What, are you SERIOUSLY reading your own posts?
The fact that our city freaking invented a form of music that has now become the DE FACTO STANDARD of pop music for club environments and the fact that other cities have copied us shows how little you know about our history.
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and the yuppie parts of Chicago are extended Big 10 universities.
The yuppie parts are full of transplants from places you claim are like us. Except they're not. Lincoln Park and Lakeview are HARDLY representative of the whole city and are tiny area-wise, anyway. Too many Midwestern people from the Plains and the Lower Midwest have relocated here and brought their culture. It no more makes us a Big 10 extension university than our large Black population with a plurality of Mississippi ties makes us Southern.
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The "hipster" parts are still stuck in this prototypical Urban Outfitters 2007 hipster.
Cue any big city in the US. Any.
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So, in short, yes, it feels midwestern compared to those cities, while not feeling midwestern compared to other midwestern cities, but still not that different. Chicago & Des Moines (a much smaller city) are far more culturally similar than Chicago is to Los Angeles.
Not familiar with Des Moines, but does it have a large Polish, Italian, Irish, Eastern Bloc, or Jewish community? Because if it doesn't, then I don't see how the cultures could be similar.
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Someone visiting from a smaller city in the midwest isn't going to experience much culture shock in Chicago other than seeing a cluster of very tall buildings. The same is not true with LA or NY (NY on a lesser scale than LA).
Heh. I dated a woman from Goshen, Indiana. She experienced quite the culture shock. Let me list ways that can happen.
-Largely liberal population indifferent to religion (not ANTI religion, but it doesn't permeate our culture like in the country by any means)
-Large Hispanic, Black, and White ethnic population (none of which you see much in the rest of the Midwest that isn't in the Great Lakes)
-Faster pace of life (only Michigan seems to be able to catch up, if not run us over lol)
-People aren't necessarily going out of their way to be nice (big city jerk attitudes)
Those are just a few in which a Midwesterner can feel Chicago is different. Of course I'm not gonna keep harping on how we don't even speak the same language and how Midwesterners do mock our nasally dialect for not being "proper enough". Seriously, what person outside of the Great Lakes is used to hearing a bunch of old Polish guys butcher the English language while no one bats an eyelash because everyone else thinks its proper? Our neighboring Illinoisans thinks we don't even speak correctly lol
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In terms of international recognition, Vegas & Miami are probably a step above Chicago in terms of places people "want to visit" (whether from USA or not) in the US or say they've been to.
Not sure how this affects Chicago being "Midwestern" or not, but OK. By that logic, anything isn't NYC, LA, Miami, or Vegas is in the Midwest.
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I'm sure a certain member here will disagree and bring up his "friends" in Tokyo/Moscow/Rio De Janeiro disagree and are much enamored with Chicago than NYC LA or Miami.
Again, how much people are enamored with the city doesn't affect the argument in the least bit. You sound like you're now trying to downplay the city's importance and are starting to forget why you wrote the post in the first place.
Chicago has become more a VISTOR/CITY every Year. Some have called SF a Boutique City... Some cities are purely geared to their main or one min industry.... Tourism. Orlando. Las Vegas, New Orleans to name a few. Many Larger cities have FAR LESS TOURISM then these small primarily Tourist cities.
Chicago under this and last Mayor did seek to increase Visitation/Tourism to Chicago. Millions Spent are very Lucrative to a city. Keeping its Hotels, Retail to Restaurants busy and they LOVE DOWNTOWN CHICAGO. Chicago hit 50 million Visitors. More Domestic then NYC. But NYC had the International visitation to place it at 62 million. Orlando his that too as Disneyworld.
Millennium Park FULL OF TOURIST and Navy Pier and all over Downtown.
I use to think Manhattan would become a Disneyesque Borough. But it can't seem to keep areas clean.... It leaves its Retail establishments have UGLEY STEEL GATES WHEN CLOSE OR THE ROW-DOWN ONES..... TERRIBLE TO SEE. You think your in the wrong side of town..... You can still walk off Times Square and some days see piles of Garbage and some seemingly underused buildings. Sure you can find CHEAP shops around... not sophisticated is it.... then on 5th Ave. Sure the min blocks are great. But the rest of electronic shops.... close and ALL THOSE STEEL GATES GO UP.... TERRIBLE TO SEE.
Downtown Chicago has NONE I SEE. The city plants flowers in the Medians, planters public buildings and hanging baskets in Lamppost. IT LOOKS GREAT. TOURIST NOTE IT.
DOWNTOWN CHICAGO IS BECOMING DISNEYESQUE...... IN A GOOD WAY... Heck even a Mind on State St near Wacker Dr. Tables and Tropical flowers.
You want Sterile clean .... You have Downtown Houston. You want Vibrant Clean.... You have Downtown Chicago.
BUT WHAT THE HECK IS RATING A CITY ON SOME NAME BRANDS .... THAT IS WHAT IS VERY .......
Sure Vegas and Miami pull International visitors. LOOK UP WHT % OF TOURIST TODAY COME FROM LATIN AMERICA .... Not a Resort for Americans anymore....
Chicago still gets a good bit more tourist then SF. Just SF's has a higher % international.... but still not close to 50 million.
Ignore him. It's obvious the poster is just trolling, don't waste your time in giving them what they want which is a reaction out of you and he's getting one. The sad thing about trolls is that they are so insecure and probably have nothing better to do with their time. I can imagine it must take a lot of time and energy to troll which means they must lead sad little lives to spend their free time spewing negative thoughts. It's pathetic really, lol. Can't imagine anyone intelligent and with a life would troll on their free time.
What's your point of comparison? The Great Lakes? Or the Lower Midwest? Because people in Indiana, most of Ohio outside of Cleveland, most of Illinois, almost all of Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, and Nebraska pretty much have insignificant numbers of non-Anglo European ethnic groups.
Are any of the aforementioned states heavily Polish, Irish, Italian, Greek, Jewish, Serbo-Croat, or Romanian? Only the state of Michigan compares to Chicago in its non-Anglo European ethnic groups and even they are concentrated around Detroit, though the Dutch and Swedes inhabit Western Michigan, too. Same goes with Minnesota, with its large Scandinavian population. If by Midwest you mean either the Upper Midwest OR the Great Lakes state of Michigan, then yes, Chicago is culturally Midwestern. But the Upper Midwest is an anomaly in its culture so much that it is considered a subset of the Midwest, NOT an accurate representation.
So, the rest of the Midwest that isn't in the far North doesn't have the same ethnic groups. So, fail. What about dialect? Well, I don't know how many Midwesterners speak in Chicago accents. Isn't the Midwest's claim to fame that they speak like newscasters or that they speak "Standard American English"? Oh, that's right. Because outside of the Great Lakes and parts of Minnesota and a sliver of South Dakota, nobody in the Midwest speaks like Chicagoans do. Could be because they didn't have the non-Anglo immigrant population to shape their dialect? Well, not could. That's exactly why, actually. Can't have the same culture if you don't have the same...culture. I know that sounds redundant, but I'd like to know how Eastern European festivals have found their way to Nebraska or Central Indiana.
It's cold here. I suppose you think no one else in the country wears winter clothing?
Because Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Boston, and New York don't do this?...
Guessing you've never ventured to any Philly sports event or heard of rioting Bostonians.
Bull. Absolute bull. You have no basis in this. In fact, Chicago's heavily prominent Eastern European population (which makes up a LARGE percentage of our Whites) is NOTORIOUS for their love of House music and nightclubs. It's practically their lifestyle. Oh yeah, can a city that INVENTED HOUSE MUSIC be called a city that favors pub culture over lounge? What, are you SERIOUSLY reading your own posts?
The fact that our city freaking invented a form of music that has now become the DE FACTO STANDARD of pop music for club environments and the fact that other cities have copied us shows how little you know about our history.
The yuppie parts are full of transplants from places you claim are like us. Except they're not. Lincoln Park and Lakeview are HARDLY representative of the whole city and are tiny area-wise, anyway. Too many Midwestern people from the Plains and the Lower Midwest have relocated here and brought their culture. It no more makes us a Big 10 extension university than our large Black population with a plurality of Mississippi ties makes us Southern.
Cue any big city in the US. Any.
Not familiar with Des Moines, but does it have a large Polish, Italian, Irish, Eastern Bloc, or Jewish community? Because if it doesn't, then I don't see how the cultures could be similar.
Heh. I dated a woman from Goshen, Indiana. She experienced quite the culture shock. Let me list ways that can happen.
-Largely liberal population indifferent to religion (not ANTI religion, but it doesn't permeate our culture like in the country by any means)
-Large Hispanic, Black, and White ethnic population (none of which you see much in the rest of the Midwest that isn't in the Great Lakes)
-Faster pace of life (only Michigan seems to be able to catch up, if not run us over lol)
-People aren't necessarily going out of their way to be nice (big city jerk attitudes)
Those are just a few in which a Midwesterner can feel Chicago is different. Of course I'm not gonna keep harping on how we don't even speak the same language and how Midwesterners do mock our nasally dialect for not being "proper enough". Seriously, what person outside of the Great Lakes is used to hearing a bunch of old Polish guys butcher the English language while no one bats an eyelash because everyone else thinks its proper? Our neighboring Illinoisans thinks we don't even speak correctly lol
Not sure how this affects Chicago being "Midwestern" or not, but OK. By that logic, anything isn't NYC, LA, Miami, or Vegas is in the Midwest.
Again, how much people are enamored with the city doesn't affect the argument in the least bit. You sound like you're now trying to downplay the city's importance and are starting to forget why you wrote the post in the first place.
Don't give in! He just baited you and you took the bait! Trolls are a waste of time to deal with on here so don't even respond to posts that are meant to agitate you, because they win. If it helps you understand better, trolls tend to be losers, that are so bored and insecure with their lives, that they feel putting negative thoughts out here to agitate people makes them feel better because they are so pathetic. What's sad is when they are banned, they go through the whole process of creating a new email address and username just to spew their hate.
Let's keep this thread going in a peaceful and pleasant way. Ignore the trolls or it will lead the thread to get shut down. Be above them!
It's not my fault you're about to go into a chant. What I said is completely true, and I stand by it.
You're making a very popular argument with Chicago boosters....intentionally exclude the gentrified neighborhoods. Then pretend gentrifying neighborhoods like Avondale, Pilsen, Logan Square or Albany Park are somehow the "real Chicago" that everyone should aspire to see. Yeah, Pilsen is probably a lot more interesting than River North because they have more varieties of authentic tacos to choose from (authentic tacos are nothing more than cubic meat, lots of cilantro/onion, with corn tortilla only, and usually some weird green salsa lol).
Maybe visitors should take a stroll through Lawndale instead. Anyone from Indianapolis has probably seen an old boring neighborhood, considering that's what their entire town basically is.
When people goto LA, they generally want to see West LA, Hollywood, Santa Monica. No one is visiting to see Van Nuys for example. Miami, they want to see South Beach, Wynwood, or Brickell. Again, no one is visiting to check out Liberty City. Only Chicago makes that argument.
It lets you know how boring Chicago is when you have to exclude what are widely regarded as your city's best neighborhoods to prove any excitement.
Nice strawman. Nobody said that these neighborhoods are more "real" Chicago. But, usually when people come to Chicago they don't even focus on neighborhoods. They focus on architecture, food, the stupid bean, and...the Mag Mile. I drive for Uber so I know what tourists are looking for. They don't really care to venture into LP or Lakeview because those neighborhoods don't have national or even regional recognition as important. They're only trendy to Midwest transplants who want to live in a safe area with fun things to do.
Chicago isn't like NYC where people focus primarily on one borough (Manhattan) when they visit. Chicago tourists don't generally venture out of the Loop unless they go to the Hancock center. So no, us using examples of other neighborhoods isn't because we think they're "real" Chicago, it's because what you listed is either a)not true or b)if true, a sample size too small to consider.
But for the sake of argument, consider White areas like Mt. Greenwood, Beverly, Edison Park, and Norwood Park. Garfield Ridge to an extent. These neighborhoods have people whose roots go back sometimes over 100 years in the area. Is that not more "real" Chicago than a neighborhood full of 20-somethings who relocated here from Wisconsin? These areas are also very safe and some of the lowest crime of the city. It's almost like you're trying to imply that non-gentrified areas aren't worth mentioning. Because to you, either the city is too gentrified (ha), or it doesn't have enough of its own character. But, you fail to mention how a small number of "trendy" neighborhoods take away the city's unique charm that separates it from the Lower Midwest or the Plains States.
You go to 111th and Millard and tell me the hardcore Catholic Irish pride people there are representative of the Midwest as a whole. Not gentrified, not trendy, and not a dangerous area. Same goes for Edison Park, Norwood Park, Garfield Ridge, and Beverly. Heck, Bridgeport is another great example and that's VERY close to downtown.
Don't give in! He just baited you and you took the bait! Trolls are a waste of time to deal with on here so don't even respond to posts that are meant to agitate you, because they win. If it helps you understand better, trolls tend to be losers, that are so bored and insecure with their lives, that they feel putting negative thoughts out here to agitate people makes them feel better because they are so pathetic. What's sad is when they are banned, they go through the whole process of creating a new email address and username just to spew their hate.
Let's keep this thread going in a peaceful and pleasant way. Ignore the trolls or it will lead the thread to get shut down. Be above them!
While I agree with this most of the time, I'd like for visitors or other posters to see how I handled this guy who knows nothing about our city. You just can't say "Chicago is culturally just like all of the Midwest!" and expect not to get your ass handed to you. If someone else reads his garbage, I'd at least like for them to see a response to it. Really, I just don't want someone who doesn't know better to read his nonsense and think "huh...this guy's got a point". No, he doesn't. He's making it up. If you believe him, read my posts and see why he's wrong. Don't just take the guy's word at face value. Chicago is in the Midwest but it aligns more with its unique region known as the Great Lakes, which culturally are significantly different from the Lower Midwest and the Plains.
There's this recurring theme in Chicago that is the equivalent of telling people to visit Vegas, but avoid the strip.
Garfield Ridge is definitely worth seeing over River North, I think I've heard it all now.
Until reading this page, I had absolutely no clue that Mexican food went beyond tacos, so it's definitely been enlightening.
Ah, the strawmen continue. Let me know when you read up on this thing called "debate". You got handled, son.
NOBODY tells people to avoid Lincoln Park and Lakeview because tourists don't give enough of a crap to even visit those places LMAO
Chicago's equivalent to The Strip is the Mag Mile, son. That ain't residential. Show me where I said Garfield Ridge is worth visiting. You mad that Garfield Ridge makes your small town Iowa persona all uncomfortable? Big city mean Irish people scare ya?
While I agree with this most of the time, I'd like for visitors or other posters to see how I handled this guy who knows nothing about our city. You just can't say "Chicago is culturally just like all of the Midwest!" and expect not to get your ass handed to you. If someone else reads his garbage, I'd at least like for them to see a response to it. Really, I just don't want someone who doesn't know better to read his nonsense and think "huh...this guy's got a point". No, he doesn't. He's making it up. If you believe him, read my posts and see why he's wrong. Don't just take the guy's word at face value. Chicago is in the Midwest but it aligns more with its unique region known as the Great Lakes, which culturally are significantly different from the Lower Midwest and the Plains.
Yeah man just ignore him. I mean he makes statements like Pilsen, known for it's Mexican cuisine, is nothing but just tacos there and then feels the need to be sarcastic over the ignorant statement he made on being called out that Mexican food is more than just tacos, in which Pilsen has so much more than tacos, but a rich Mexican restaurant scene, art scene and Mexican music scene.
Anyway, he is from Iowa, so really, it's rich that someone from Iowa thinks they know what Chicago is really all about because he doesn't. I heard Iowa isn't the most interesting, underrated for sure, but apparently, he must live in some boring place.
While I agree with this most of the time, I'd like for visitors or other posters to see how I handled this guy who knows nothing about our city. You just can't say "Chicago is culturally just like all of the Midwest!" and expect not to get your ass handed to you. If someone else reads his garbage, I'd at least like for them to see a response to it. Really, I just don't want someone who doesn't know better to read his nonsense and think "huh...this guy's got a point". No, he doesn't. He's making it up. If you believe him, read my posts and see why he's wrong. Don't just take the guy's word at face value. Chicago is in the Midwest but it aligns more with its unique region known as the Great Lakes, which culturally are significantly different from the Lower Midwest and the Plains.
You "handle" men on forums? I prefer not to participate then.
It could be summed up as easily as saying Chicago doesn't really have much of a glamour appeal, but it has everything else.
LA/Miami/Vegas have that appeal, and to pretend that doesn't affect the perception of a city...is...well, I'll let you "handle" that, since it seems to be your specialty.
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