Does Chicago "feel" Midwestern? (Lincoln, Paris: best neighborhoods, real estate market, foreclosure)

[steeps]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

17 pages and I don't believe a single person has pointed out Chicago's true doppelganger: Toronto. In all seriousness, that's by far our closest counterpart in terms of size, diversity, urban feel, etc.

So, we're obviously a Canadian metropolis that happens to be located in the central part of the United States.

For one...... few if any Canadians or Torontonians come into a Chicago thread unless Toronto is in the title too and few times we in the US bring in Canada and its cities unless All North America is in included.

In the Midwest there or in the US.... we never think of Toronto as part of the Midwest.. though still very much a Great Lakes City. Its more linked to the Northeast US.... I believe generally. Till all this surpassing Chicago Proper's population attention. Though in the US and Chicago... it got little attention.
As for the term... Doppelganger... .... had to look that term up.... A misspelling of the German, "doppelganger", roughly translates as "evil twin". A Twin, Clone, look alike.....

Not what I expected. I expected you meant Toronto as somehow overtaking Chicago..... as they boasted they did.... in the city proper of Toronto over Chicago a couple years ago. Especially on C-D.....But TORONTONIANS. Now see Chicago is Old news...... to be likened to or most similar to. They have their sights on comparisons to NYC today.... even London.

I'd say go into a Toronto thread and use that term as Chicago's .... doppelganger... and they see it means ... evil twin or look like.... Better be prepared for WAR. . Besides.... They can claim being in distance... closer to NYC then even Chicago.

As for Chicago NOT GAINING good attributes of either coast? I disagree. As Older LA has a vast Bungalow belt. So does Chicago. Though they differ in bungalow styles.... With Chicago's mainly Brick and Frank Lloyd Wright Inspired.... and Sprawl. Chicago's denser. Last couple Decades especially and more. Chicago has undergone a MANHATTANIZING of its Downtown. Though scope and densities and styles differ.

Their each Unique and NO ONE AFTER VIITING DOWNTOWN CHICAGO SAYS ITS NOT A TRUELY VIBRANT DOWNTOWN IN THE US AND STEREOTYPICAL VIEWS BECOME OF LESS VALUE.

No one visits Chicago and says..... this city could be NO WHERE ELSE BUT THE MIDWEST......

[raleightransplant]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I agree with you... but unfortunately, it's going against the headwinds of everyone else that's the problem. For various reasons, a lot of the positive attributes of New York City and Boston seem to get passed down to smaller cities on the East Coast (and, by the same token, many positive attributes of LA and San Francisco seem to get passed down to the smaller cities on the West Coast). In contrast, Chicago looks like complete outlier compared to the rest of the Midwest. Mind you, none of that is actually all true, but that's how it is perceived from the outside.

Also, for whatever criticisms that people have against the South, the people down there 100% *own* that they are Southern. It doesn't matter if you're in Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc. - they run *to* the Southern mantra. (The exception is Florida, which has an entirely unique mix of people born elsewhere, whether inside or outside of the US.) Midwestern people don't do that - maybe it's because it's a more reserved culture, maybe it's because of the weather, maybe it's because of other attributes - but there isn't the same type of unity that you see with other regions. So, if other Midwesterners don't seem to be proud to be Midwestern, it's even harder for Chicago to champion being Midwestern when it already looks so different from the rest of the region.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree to a point about the South and regional pride. I do think you're starting to see a lot of regional pride with Great Lakes states, however, in recent years (especially in MI and WI). There are some drop dead beautiful places in the upper midwest...seems to get prettier the further north you go. As for Chicago you'll definitely see a lot of stores, shops and restaurants that are in to the local food, local beer, etc., thing, emphasizing the Midwest. I don't think people necessarily run from it at all. You'll see shops with those prints outlining the "Great Lakes". It should be a real source of pride. You're sitting smack dab in the middle of 30 percent of the world's freshwater for crying out loud. That's unique and I think something worth being outwardly proud about. FWIW, I really liked Madison. Beautiful there. I love that it straddles those two lakes, Mendota and Menona. I think that is a place that embraces the *modern* Midwest, and it's an extremely cool little city. I'd put it up against any city similar in size to it around the US actually.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

Size is the only difference huh? So Indianapolis is like a smaller Chicago? Or Detroit is like a smaller and poorer Chicago? Sorry, I'm getting the idea that you haven't traveled around the Midwest very much.

You're right, I haven't done much travelling around the Midwest. I've only been to the following citiesetroit, Milwaukee, St Louis, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Rockford, Carbondale, Peoria, Dayton, Columbus and St Paul. Chicago is definitely cut from the same cloth. Why is that such a bad thing?

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by marothisu

A few other cities have it too outside of the Midwest. Though parts of NYC are very integrated, there are also huge swaths of population which are very segregated as well. The following represent the populations in NYC for the number of people living in census block groups of 75% or more of just one race:

* Black: 979,697 people
* Hispanic: 504,762 people

That's a pretty large population for those two groups about the size of Philadelphia.

Here are Chicago's numbers (which are of course worse by percentage):
* Black: 707,303
* Hispanic: 401,785

Large population for that as we know and higher than NYC obviously percentage wise, but NYC is still another city not in the midwest still with large scale segregation going on too.

These numbers certainly aren't helping your cause. New York has triple the population of Chicago. New York has about 25-30% more people living in these segregated census tracts but 300% more people. All this proves is that Chicago is much more segregated than New York. lol

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by K 22

I don't know about that. Outside of downtown and most of Yonge Street, Toronto is WAY more spread out and "sprawly" than Chicago is.

Ehh . . . are you sure about that?? There are clusters of highrises spread out in a lot more of Toronto neighborhoods throughout the city than Chicago.

Then if you are talking about metro areas, there is no comparison. Chicagos SUBURBS are more parklike, with larger, more leafy lots than Torontos comparatively European-like suburbs.

Chicago has more 19th century rowhouses however in its inner neighborhoods.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I agree with you... but unfortunately, it's going against the headwinds of everyone else that's the problem. For various reasons, a lot of the positive attributes of New York City and Boston seem to get passed down to smaller cities on the East Coast (and, by the same token, many positive attributes of LA and San Francisco seem to get passed down to the smaller cities on the West Coast). In contrast, Chicago looks like complete outlier compared to the rest of the Midwest. Mind you, none of that is actually all true, but that's how it is perceived from the outside.

Also, for whatever criticisms that people have against the South, the people down there 100% *own* that they are Southern. It doesn't matter if you're in Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc. - they run *to* the Southern mantra. (The exception is Florida, which has an entirely unique mix of people born elsewhere, whether inside or outside of the US.) Midwestern people don't do that - maybe it's because it's a more reserved culture, maybe it's because of the weather, maybe it's because of other attributes - but there isn't the same type of unity that you see with other regions. So, if other Midwesterners don't seem to be proud to be Midwestern, it's even harder for Chicago to champion being Midwestern when it already looks so different from the rest of the region.

I don't know. Nashville absolutely with its perception as being the country music headquarters of the US, Charlotte too probably. But Atlanta with its reputation as "Black Mecca", "Hollywood of the South" and one of the top centers of hip hop and R&B, (along with headquarters of CNN, and other things) I don't think Atlanta "runs" to the Southern mantra anymore than Chicago does to the midwest.

I would go into Chicagos midwestern attributes but its been done enough on this thread and many others like it.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I was concentrating more on the similarities of the downtown areas, although I see what you're saying.

Regardless, I understand the reason why this is such a hotly debated topic. As some others have mentioned, it all stems from the fact that the outside perception/stereotypes of the Midwest (i.e. conservative, either dying Rust Belt cities or small rural towns, simple, slow-paced, etc.) are (a) negative and/or patronizing and (b) don't fit Chicago at all, so Chicagoans naturally want to run away from those characterizations. There are certainly many Midwestern attributes to Chicago just as there are, say, many Texan attributes to Austin, but Chicago and Austin have many *fundamental* cultural differences compared to their respective regions (and Miami is in an entirely different category from the South). The cultural differences between different West Coast cities or East Coast cities seem to be more on the margins, whereas Chicago compared to the rest of the Midwest or Austin compared to the rest of Texas seems like much more of a gulf. Chicago is obviously *in* the Midwest physically, but it's not necessarily *of* the Midwest culturally at this point. It might have been different 30 or 40 years ago, but it isn't the case anymore.

and this whole idea of Austin being the one city that is not "of" Texas is overrated. Houston is much larger and more international, while San Antonio is nothing like what most people think of Texas, it really is part of hispanic America. Austin's cool, but I don't think its any "less Texan" than its other cities.

[AMWChicago]

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

It feels like Chicago to me

Preach!

[AtlasTraveler]

There is nothing more tiring than Midwesterners debating the Midwest. Other areas of the country actually think fondly of the Midwest and its culture (they think of... Frank Lloyd Wright, Prairie Home Companion, epicenter of manufacturing, European immigrants, birthplace of techno and house music, birthplace of the labor movement, agriculture/farm to table/fresh healthy food, abundant fresh water, change of seasons, snow, large land grant State research universities, Great Lakes, Oprah... I could go on). It's the Midwest that is insecure, unsure and down on the Midwest.

Nothing epitomizes this more than Chicago's identity crisis with being associated with the Midwest! Talk about an existential crisis on steroids. How ridiculous and insulting to the region. I'm sorry... you're part of the Midwest; in fact, you're the center of the Midwest Universe. Get over it.

[AtlasTraveler]

What I'm trying to say in the above^^ is own your identity. No city (or person) gets anywhere by pretending to be something/someone else. It reeks of desperation and is quite frankly absurdly boring ...but.... but... Chicago is more like New York!!!!!! No, no - it's more like Toronto! Totally not Midwestern!!!! It feels more East coast!!!!!!! Chicago is Chicago.

It's annoying seeing Chicago so obsessed with imitating other "world class" cities instead of just being itself... Its own world class city. I think this is and will lead to the demise of Chicago. Here is a great read on Chicago's sad attempts at changing its image to fit a "world class" city (whatever that means): The Streetlights of Chicago

Does anyone see San Francisco pretending not to be the epicenter of hippies, gay rights, counter-culture, gold rush? Does Hollywood bashfully try to wipe away its image of excess, glitz? Does Silicone Valley pretend to be anything but a ruthless playground for tech ventures and innovation? Is DC not full of politicos? Does New York try to be Tokyo or London? Does Dallas proclaim it's not part of Texas (or for that matter, the Southwest...).

Enough.