Depaul MS in Comp Sci (find a job, school, colleges)

[VictoryIsMine1]

These MS in CS programs that doesn't require a BS in CS or CE (Computer Engineering) is basically just another bachelor's degree.

If anything, it seems like you have to take LESS math and hard science classes. You don't have to take physics or calculus I,II, & III in these programs nor are they prerequisites. The DePaul program doesn't even have a discrete mathematics requirement!

I've know many people that are in that exact program and they are people that have the typical useless undergraduate degrees in fields such as women's studies and African studies. They realize that they can't find anything beyond $10-$15 an hour and have tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

They come to the conclusion that they are not special and no one is going to hire them with their useless degree and useless experience. Then they realize that the only way they are going to ever earn a decent living is to actually get an in demand skill such as CS. I've seen people drop out after introduction to programming because it just isn't for them.

The fact of the matter is that the world is very competitive and it is becoming even more competitive. Not everyone is entitled to or are going to get a good paying job and good standard of life. Some people are just going to be stuck working $10-$15 per hour jobs forever. Yes, the world is unfair. If you are just realizing it now you are in BIG trouble.

Mod cut.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by VictoryIsMine1

These MS in CS programs that doesn't require a BS in CS or CE (Computer Engineering) is basically just another bachelor's degree.

If anything, it seems like you have to take LESS math and hard science classes. You don't have to take physics or calculus I,II, & III in these programs nor are they prerequisites. The DePaul program doesn't even have a discrete mathematics requirement!

I've know many people that are in that exact program and they are people that have the typical useless undergraduate degrees in fields such as women's studies and African studies. They realize that they can't find anything beyond $10-$15 an hour and have tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

They come to the conclusion that they are not special and no one is going to hire them with their useless degree and useless experience. Then they realize that the only way they are going to ever earn a decent living is to actually get an in demand skill such as CS. I've seen people drop out after introduction to programming because it just isn't for them.

The fact of the matter is that the world is very competitive and it is becoming even more competitive. Not everyone is entitled to or are going to get a good paying job and good standard of life. Some people are just going to be stuck working $10-$15 per hour jobs forever. Yes, the world is unfair. If you are just realizing it now you are in BIG trouble.

[snip]

Seriously:

COURSE REQUIREMENTS
Introductory Courses
No Introductory course (a course numbered 400 through 419) may be substituted for any other course at any level.

Introductory courses may be waived for any of the following conditions:
The student has the appropriate course work to satisfy an Introductory Course.
The student has appropriate and verified professional experience to satisfy an Introductory Course.
The student passes a Graduate Assessment Examination (GAE) in the Introductory Course area.
CSC 400 Discrete Structures for Computer Science
CSC 401 Introduction to Programming
CSC 402 Data Structures I
CSC 403 Data Structures II
CSC 406 Systems I
CSC 407 Systems II

CSC 400 Discrete Structures for Computer Science


Iyad Kanj
Office: CDM 832
Fall 2015-2016
Class number: 11660
Section number: 701
M 5:45PM - 9:00PM
LEWIS 01111 Loop Campus
Course homepage: https://d2l.depaul.edu/
Summary
This course introduces the basic mathematical tools and background essential for studying computer science. The topics to be discussed include: logic and set theory, relations and functions, counting and basic probability, and graph theory.


Texts
Susanna S. Epp, Discrete Mathematics with Applications, 4th edition, ISBN 0-495-39132-8.

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[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by VictoryIsMine1

These MS in CS programs that doesn't require a BS in CS or CE (Computer Engineering) is basically just another bachelor's degree.

Yea, after seeing the course catalog that Chet posted, absolutely.

I mean, CS 400 is just an graduate version of discrete structures...

+rep.

Originally Posted by VictoryIsMine1

If anything, it seems like you have to take LESS math and hard science classes. You don't have to take physics or calculus I,II, & III in these programs nor are they prerequisites. The DePaul program doesn't even have a discrete mathematics requirement!

I've know many people that are in that exact program and they are people that have the typical useless undergraduate degrees in fields such as women's studies and African studies. They realize that they can't find anything beyond $10-$15 an hour and have tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

See, I have this problem now. I have this part-time job that I started while in college, pursuing a chemistry degree. But I guess the job market for chemistry bachelor's must be real tough. I been looking for a full-time job for 3 years. And with my part-time job, I've never made more than $12k/year. I live in places where the rent is $300/month, on Obamacare, all that.

The only thing is I don't have the debt though, as my parents paid for my tuition.

I guess I need to find jobs that hire people of "any" bachelor's degree.

Originally Posted by VictoryIsMine1

They come to the conclusion that they are not special and no one is going to hire them with their useless degree and useless experience. Then they realize that the only way they are going to ever earn a decent living is to actually get an in demand skill such as CS. I've seen people drop out after introduction to programming because it just isn't for them.

What would you rank are the most useful bachelor's by major?

1. CS? 2. Engineering? 3.Finance/Econ?

Originally Posted by VictoryIsMine1

The fact of the matter is that the world is very competitive and it is becoming even more competitive. Not everyone is entitled to or are going to get a good paying job and good standard of life. Some people are just going to be stuck working $10-$15 per hour jobs forever. Yes, the world is unfair. If you are just realizing it now you are in BIG trouble.

Yes. This is called, survival of the fittest, and even natural selection.

Mod cut.

[chet everett]

Mod cut.

What matters more than what you major in is what you can demonstrate to potential employers. People with bad attitudes never do well in interviews. People that have not shown a record of initiative and accomplishment get better offers of employment than someone that may have a more desirable major but will behaves in a way that suggests they will not get along with managers of all genders.

The OP has the right idea - overcome lack of appropriate coursework with an MS. Together with demonstrated success in using math & physics skills in solving quantitative problems they'll be in good shape to get nice first job. UofC has smaller enrollment and generally better placement but DePaul is also very good for firms in the region. On campus recruiters are a huge plus. If the OP also can find any related job while working on MS that greatly enhances odds of networking into good situation.

[VictoryIsMine1]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

Yea, after seeing the course catalog that Chet posted, absolutely.

I mean, CS 400 is just an graduate version of discrete structures...

+rep.

I wouldn't even call it a "graduate version". It is basically the exact same material you would find at the undergraduate level, except it is classified as graduate course work.

Originally Posted by NealIRC

See, I have this problem now. I have this part-time job that I started while in college, pursuing a chemistry degree. But I guess the job market for chemistry bachelor's must be real tough. I been looking for a full-time job for 3 years. And with my part-time job, I've never made more than $12k/year. I live in places where the rent is $300/month, on Obamacare, all that.

The only thing is I don't have the debt though, as my parents paid for my tuition.

I guess I need to find jobs that hire people of "any" bachelor's degree.

I am sorry to hear about your situation. However, you seem to have a good work ethic which puts you ahead of the pack.

You get reps for trying to improve your skill set so you may find a better job. A degree may not be the best option thought. They are certificates and even the trades.

Answer this question, if you weren't interested in CS or didn't have the aptitude to study CS as an undergraduate, what makes you think you are now? People are actually better able to learn new things when they are younger, not older.

Originally Posted by NealIRC

What would you rank are the most useful bachelor's by major?

1. CS? 2. Engineering? 3.Finance/Econ?

1.) Engineering
2.) CS
3.) Accounting, NOT finance and econ.

Originally Posted by NealIRC

Yes. This is called, survival of the fittest, and even natural selection.

Yes, it is.

Mod cut.

[platinum7hacker]

Thank you all for all the new and amazing ideas. I am still not sure if you guys are the conclusion as to whether or not I should go for the Master's program at DePaul or not?
I also wanted to update you guys on the fact that thru the Department head and the CS dean at Loyola have offered me admission to the Master's program. I have hear from my few friends that Loyola's and DePauls BS in CS seems to be at the same level. I have yet to find anyone who has gotten a masters at Loyola in CS or even at DePaul. I know that UIUC, U of C, and Northwestern are at the top of their game, but me getting into those programs will be a miracle. I do have great Math and Physics skills, but no one wants to hire be because I lack engineering degree and that I don't have any programming skills. Therefore, the only option I see is getting a Master's at DePaul or Loyola because I will get the skills for programming and I MIGHT be able to land a job in about two years or so in the vast growing CS field. I am not sure what to do, but I do want a Master's degree in CS, but scared about not finding a job.

[VictoryIsMine1]

Here is the truth of the matter, if you are actually capable of software engineering, not just "programming" you will find a job that will at least give you a chance to prove yourself. You won't get a high paying developer job at a tech company, but you will probably be able to land a $40,000 to $50,000 a year job at a start up or non-tech company.

Yes, there is a difference between programming, software development, and software engineering. Go research the difference on your own if you are serious about the MS in CS.

[PrairieGirl]

The job market is still very competitive. I personally would not invest in further education without getting some real-world job experience. The difference between what you "should" make and what you may be offered for that first job could be significant. If you just graduated in June and haven't found a job yet, you need to set an appointment with Career Advisory office. A polished resume and catchier cover letter, better interviewing skills, could all make a difference. Don't give up!

[NealIRC]

If your undergrad is in physics, then your "next schooling" should help you get a job in physics, to be more competitive. So getting a MS in CS with intent to get a job in CS is pretty self-destructive.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by platinum7hacker

Thank you all for all the new and amazing ideas. I am still not sure if you guys are the conclusion as to whether or not I should go for the Master's program at DePaul or not?
I also wanted to update you guys on the fact that thru the Department head and the CS dean at Loyola have offered me admission to the Master's program. I have hear from my few friends that Loyola's and DePauls BS in CS seems to be at the same level. I have yet to find anyone who has gotten a masters at Loyola in CS or even at DePaul. I know that UIUC, U of C, and Northwestern are at the top of their game, but me getting into those programs will be a miracle. I do have great Math and Physics skills, but no one wants to hire be because I lack engineering degree and that I don't have any programming skills. Therefore, the only option I see is getting a Master's at DePaul or Loyola because I will get the skills for programming and I MIGHT be able to land a job in about two years or so in the vast growing CS field. I am not sure what to do, but I do want a Master's degree in CS, but scared about not finding a job.

I have stressed over and over that BOTH UofC and DePaul INTENTIONALLY offer their MS programs to folks that DO NOT HAVE UNDERGRAD Computer Science degrees. The admissions standards of BOTH are actually VERY SIMILAR, do NOT assume that one is all that much harder than the other!

The biggest difference is in range of offerings /focus and format. DePaul has MANY options that include a mostly traditional MS in CS as well as more PRACTICAL options that deal specifically with developing proficiency with other aspects of IT employment. The UofC program is a bit narrower and a bit of a hybrid, serving some traditional "academic" content but all aimed toward INDUSTRY employment. Neither of these are the kinds of sequence you would take if you wanted to be researcher!

The OP is pretty close to the IDEAL candidate for either of these programs -- having taking a mathematically intensive undergrad, specifically Physics, there is little doubt that they could absolutely handle the small amount of required discrete math.

In many ways both of these programs have a similar function to the kinds of "Executive Business Certificates" that are offered by schools like Wharton or Harvard -- it is a credential that opens doors. For those certificate holders they may have started working in a local business right out of school and later realize that to get interviewed by a company with more of national scope they need to validate that they are capable of high stakes negotiation, detailed marketing strategies, or complex finance. Those certificates prove that the applicant has those capabilities, and they can participate in the recruiting that happens on campus.

That is EXACTLY what happens to folks that complete the UofC or DePaul Masters Degree in any of the computer related fields. There are trading firms, insurers, banks, and global consumer /industrial products firms that hire folks directly out of these programs for salaries that are higher than newly minted undergrads because the employer already has had good success with these graduates. In MANY cases the people doing the interviewing will be grads of DePaul themselves. There are LOTS of options that are not straight programing -- skills like security, commerce / SEO optimization, content creation, planning / project management are all currently in demand.
If the OP's goal is to head to Silicon Valley these might not be the best use of their time and money but if they want to start working at a good Chicago area employer upon completion, or even while enrolled, this can be an ideal path.