Lincoln Square (Chicago, Leland, Albany: crime, living, price)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Like I said "no current data"... Come on, an article published in 2007 is almost certainly based on test scores that are graduating college!!

How much do you think has changed in the intervening three years? And "graduating college?" These are high schools we're talking about here so I don't even know what that means.

Originally Posted by chet everett

No class envy (heck I went to a private high school, taught in 'em too) just a simple statement that the criteria of what makes schools like Northside or Payton "highly selective" is not really part of the equation when you talk about any private school. Look, it is pretty simple when you think about it -- its like saying a some vehicle is a "super car". Consider a Corvette ZR-1 -- it goes like thunder, stops like an anchor and corners like glue. Probably has numeric superiority to every normal production Porsche or Ferrari, but those two end up in all the glamorous locations celebrity garages because the image is completely different. It is not like saying the Porsche is deficient or the Ferrari is for putzes, just saying they are not in that "superior achievement needed" group on the test track. CPS in some ways had to do what Chevrolet does to make the ZR-1, you get the best stuff you can, make it work as hard as possible and it zooms to the top. Porsche and Ferrari make lovely vehicles too, and they don't have to do leasing deals on 'em and they rather like an empty showroom, as it helps feed the legendary exclusivity. ZR-1 = Northside & Payton ; Ferrari & Porsche = Latin & Parker

I'm not sure what all this is about either. Porsche, Ferrari, ZR-1, whatever. I wasn't trying to say anything about CPS magnet schools. All I'm saying is that it's a stretch to imply that Latin School and Francis Parker are just ho-hum schools with expensive price tags like Chi-Town Native tried to do.

[chet everett]

Yeah, I disagree that they are "ho hom", they definitely have 'features' that really you only get at a private school, and even among private schools the traditional measures of "achievement" are not the only reason people are picking them. I think every knows that in terms of raw 'performance' the very selective public schools are top performers. The level of achievement at very very good suburban schools for the vast majority trumps the achievement of most private schools most years. But really is not a valid criteria, as even the parents that do have kids that they want in the "best schools" do have preferences / abilities that go beyond just the performance...

The question I think that makes sense in terms of Lincoln Square and other parts of the city that require a bit of a longer commute (or heaven forbid reliance on public transit) to expensive private schools is what is the total impact for the students and the family. Not just the every morning and every evening drop-off / pick-up, but the fact that classmates won't be neighbors and neighbor kids won't be classmates (in all the senses of that word...).
In a way it is funny too, as you have folks talking about the 'horrible traffic' in Naperville or something and then they choose to live in a part of Chicago that means they really need to drive their kinds down to Lincoln Park or Near North Side, negating any advantage of the walkable nature of the par of the city they live in... It is also pretty funny when some folks weigh in on the wonderfulness of the private schools with there very high price tags but are bothered by snobbiness or a bias. Where I come from if you can't take some ribbing about your gaudy watch then you better just stick with a Timex...

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Drover

All I'm saying is that it's a stretch to imply that Latin School and Francis Parker are just ho-hum schools with expensive price tags like Chi-Town Native tried to do.

I'm still not sure that Francis Parker is some academic achievement factory (but again, if it's improved since the late 80s, I stand corrected), but I'll give you that Latin seems to have improved markedly from my day, although ACT scores are far from an end-all, be-all.

But I also forgot that dragging down Ignatius high scoring students are their legacy kids, of which are there are many - clout still counts in that world.

I am curious how IB and magnet programs stack up, though. I tend to agree with Chet's "I think every knows that in terms of raw 'performance' the very selective public schools are top performers."

I went to Ignatius instead of the IB program at LP - the IB "audition" blew Ignatius' one out of the water in terms of difficulty and thoroughness. At Ignatius your form literally started with "name your parish," and then "name any family members who attended previously."

I also heartily agree with Chet's note on the impact of attending a school far out of your neighborhood - my parents didn't want me going to LP precisely because they feared me just hanging out with the neighborhood riff-raff. But it was really aggravating to watch my friends get off the 8 Halsted for LP and know I still had another 30 minutes on what was then possibly the most dysfunctional bus on the north side at that point in time (nothing like cruising through Cabrini, and then the bumtown environment Greektown was at that time).

[sk761]

sorry to bump this old-ish thread, and i couldn't find this answer doing a search --

how's lincoln square west of western? say, lawrence and california? I grew up in albany park and remember that area being seedy with LKs (specifically Gross Park).

I'm looking at an apt directly across from the park. I know the area's changed but just wanted the latest update. I have two little ones too, so just trying to be thorough.

thanks.

[Drover]

First things first, Albany Park has cleaned up a lot since the 90s but not to the extent that it has become gentrified. The Lawrence and Montrose corridors are still a little iffy. But there's also a lot of pretty expensive housing around there, particularly immediately south of Lawrence where you'll find homes approaching a million bucks. A mini commercial corridor with decent little shops and restaurants has cropped up near the L station on Rockwell.

[sk761]

Thanks Drover.

I was actually going to say earlier that I must be stuck in the '90's to hesitate moving to an area crowded with new condos... if we were kid-less it'd be a total non-issue. lincoln square is an ideal location but we can't afford rent in the "heart" of LS or ravenswood.

slightly tangential, do shoes thrown over telephone wires mean anything anymore?

[Drover]

The neighborhood has in fact stabilized but don't be fooled by all the new condos; the progress never did reach the critical mass necessary to fully turn the neighborhood around. There's still plenty of gang activity in Albany Park including a number of shootings and even a couple of homicides every year. So your question isn't as far off-base as you might have thought.

Urban legends notwithstanding, I doubt shoes thrown over telephone lines ever meant anything at all except as a form of urban expression. Ask 10 different people what shoes over telephone wires meant and you'll probably get 11 different answers.

[Alacran]

LKs still hang around River, Ronan and Gross parks.

[sk761]

alrighty, thanks alacran and drover. think you both confirmed my hesitation. i'll either try expanding my search into budlong woods or eat more pb&j sandwiches to afford something closer to welles park.

[Drover]

Well, suit yourself I guess. While I would scope out the immediate area around a prospective apartment carefully, I'd have no qualms about living in Albany Park.