Where are the Chicago Italians?? (Springfield, Elmwood Park: groceries, vs, shop)

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by 1972Impala

Philly feels much more similar to Baltimore/DC imo. only similarity to NYC is Center City, besides that Architecturally and Socially it is very different from NYC, although there are allot of paralells granted, Philly isn't as similar to New York as people think it is. Philly is not an international, posh town like NYC is and that's why I love it. Id totally live in Phila.

I think he meant in terms of ethnic composition.

"The neighborhood itself is traditionally Italian, that's one of the reasons I chose to live here [around 12th and Ritner]," says Joe Cicala, chef and owner of Le Virtu and Brigantessa, restaurants that specialize in dishes from the regions where most of Philadelphia's Italian population emigrated from (Abruzzo at the first establishment; Southern Italy more broadly in the second). "They still speak Italian in the streets. It's really a phenomenal thing. I grew up in a very WASP-y and Jewish area [outside Washington, D.C.], where I was one of the very, very few Italians other than my immediate family. So I've always had this romanticized idea of living in an Italian neighborhood, [here] I finally had a chance to do it."

The Philadelphia region's Italian-American legacy endures

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by personone

I partially agree with you. I do notice that even though there are parts of Chicago with large Italian populations, many do tend to blend in with generalized American culture more so than on the East Coast. But Chicago Italians have always had a unique style. Old school guys like Joe Mantegna and Dennis Farina (RIP) had their own, unique style as Chicago Italians.

I agree with this. Chicagoland has more Italians than metro St. Louis, but they stick out more down there. Maybe that's why The Hill in St. Louis proper has kept its Italian character much more than anything in Chicago that I've seen.

[Roberto1000]

Italians are plentiful in Chicago (in volume of Italians, it is number 2 or 3 in USA depending on sources), but hard to notice because they are very widely scattered (as mentioned above) ... while other ethnic groups, still have strong communities. Because they are pushed/ spread out, Chicago Italians have really integrated/blended into the system at a faster rate than many other Italian-stronghold cities.... thus even more difficult to stand out.

Areas of Norridge, and Hardwood Heights are City-type suburbs which I frequently visited when I lived in Chicago, and they do have probably the best mix of Italians . Additionally, Harlem going down to Elmwood park, and Cumberland down to Grand, and in-between these two streets are rich with Italians. Addision suburb is probably the most concentrated area with Italians ... Never-the-Less, all these mentioned areas are rather diluted In comparison to NY/NJ. ... It is important to note that during my years living in NYC , I noticed that Italians were also becoming diluted/moving from traditional neighborhoods.... they will also become spread out ultimately

However, A new wave of young Italians have been immigrating to the USA (and around the world) due to the crisis here in Italy, and popular city destinations (in volume) are now NYC, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles in such order

Some friends in Chicago are telling me that this new wave of italians are more professional, and are living in downtown area ... and there is many of them in the down-town area

[ToriaT]

Also Galewood was heavily Italian.

[steeps]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Elmwood Park, IL (60707)
Total Italian ancestry: 6,526 (15.27% of total population)
Italian alone: 3,804 (8.90% of total population)
Italians as % of Whites: 26.28%
River Grove, IL (60171)
Total Italian ancestry: 1,166 (11.32% of total population)
Italian alone: 624 (6.05% of total population)
Italians as % of Whites: 15.85%
Dyker Heights, Brooklyn, NY (11228)
Total Italian ancestry: 15,299 (34.82% of total population)
Italian alone: 12,146 (27.64% of total population)
Italians as % of Whites: 55.33%
South Philadelphia, PA (19145)
Total Italian ancestry: 14,133 (29.58% of total population)
Italian alone: 9,460 (19.80% of total population)
Italians as % of Whites: 65.35%

This is not Chicago Italian neighborhoods vs NYC or Philly. I realize you always place NYC best in everything. As others noted Chicago Italians got more dispersed. I will add by a couple key neighborhoods on the Southside, where rapid white flight occurred in the 60s into the 70s especially too.

Also In the post-WW2 era, many Little Italies in Chicago, were demolished to make way for new institutions and structures on the Southside. The University of Chicago, The Eisenhower Expressway in the 50s, and public housing Projects in the 60s (Now all ripped down) replaced former Italian neighborhoods.

This caused increasing numbers of Italians to move to suburbs west of Chicago like Elmwood Park and newer Chicago neighborhoods and Suburbs like Norridge and Harwood Heights on the Northwest side. What is left of Little Italy on the Southside, is also called Little Italy/University Campus on Google maps today.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8701...6599424,15.67z

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by Roberto1000

It is important to note that during my years living in NYC , I noticed that Italians were also becoming diluted/moving from traditional neighborhoods.... they will also become spread out ultimately

The suburbs of NYC have basically become "Italianized." Italian is the largest ancestry in almost every metro suburban county.

But let’s get back to Brooklyn, or more to the point, New Jersey, being that my trip to Brooklyn was sandwiched between visits to Long Island and New Jersey. Which brings me to Soprano Country—Bloomfield, Clifton, and North Caldwell. I saw it all. But what really stuck with me is how ubiquitous Italian American life is in the area (not just New Jersey or Long Island, mind you; I took a jaunt down Brooklyn’s Court Street and Avenue U, too, and saw plenty of pasticcerie and salumerie, not to mention other subtle, or not so subtle, signs of Italian American existence).

What struck me is the way a small town, like, say, Nutley, New Jersey, seems to have become (or always was?) a kind of Little Italy all its own. That when Italian Americans did their part in the great white flight to the suburbs in the decades following the Second World War, those in the New York area appeared to have taken a good part of the commerce and culture of their urban neighborhoods with them. (I realize I’m making some broad generalizations here.)

Raccogli e passa | i-ITALY

[UKWildcat1981]

Italians, Irish and Jews make me miss the East Coast thou, all my buddies in college were Jewish and Italian and some Irish.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by steeps

This is not Chicago Italian neighborhoods vs NYC or Philly. I realize you always place NYC best in everything. As others noted Chicago Italians got more dispersed. I will add by a couple key neighborhoods on the Southside, where rapid white flight occurred in the 60s into the 70s especially too.

Also In the post-WW2 era, many Little Italies in Chicago, were demolished to make way for new institutions and structures on the Southside. The University of Chicago, The Eisenhower Expressway in the 50s, and public housing Projects in the 60s (Now all ripped down) replaced former Italian neighborhoods.

This caused increasing numbers of Italians to move to suburbs west of Chicago like Elmwood Park and newer Chicago neighborhoods and Suburbs like Norridge and Harwood Heights on the Northwest side. What is left of Little Italy on the Southside, is also called Little Italy/University Campus on Google maps today.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8701...6599424,15.67z

I only included Dyker Heights because NOLA101 mentioned it in one of his posts. It has nothing to do with me always wanting to "place NYC best in everything."

That said, eastern cities experienced as much White flight as Chicago. The difference was that the Italian populations in these cities were larger (either in raw number or relative to total population), which resulted in higher residential concentrations. It is no different from African Americans leaving Washington, DC and settling in neighborhing Prince George's County, which is today majority Black.

[steeps]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

I only included Dyker Heights because NOLA101 mentioned it in one of his posts. It has nothing to do with me always wanting to "place NYC best in everything."

That said, eastern cities experienced as much White flight as Chicago. The difference was that the Italian populations in these cities were larger, which resulted in higher residential concentrations. It is no different from African Americans leaving Washington, DC and settling in neighborhing Prince George's County, which is today majority Black.

I merely stuck to Chicago. Nola101 is another who will boost NYC over Chicago on all things and levels in threads. Others all gave insights as to why Chicago Italians are more dispersed as did I and said what areas and suburbs many moved too. Their old housing in parts still remains. But their decedents, are long dispersed. Especially in Chicago's Southside.

The babushka clad women in neighborhood squares with carts of wares? Are basically a thing of the past here, The Italians emigrating now tend to be professionals. Chicago still listed as one of their destination cities today due to a bad Italian economy today.

Even my small hometowns Italian neighborhood is long gone and the others. It is great some Big cities still have some. Mostly if newer immigrants continued to settle there? Long after the first large waves came.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by steeps

It is great some Big cities still have some. Mostly if newer immigrants continued to settle there? Long after the first large waves came.

There was some immigration after WWII. But the biggest thing, as I said before, was that the Italian populations were much larger to begin with. Larger populations tend to be more endogamous. In the New York area, a lot of Italians and Jews can live in mostly Italian or Jewish communities without having to actively seek them out. Their numbers are large enough where their social lives can largely remain within those ethnic circles.