Young family, loop(south/west), lincoln/gold coast? (Chicago, Ogden: fit in, transplants)

[AArch]

Hi,

So I'm headed to the loop next week for a final interview and trying to figure out if Chicago will be workable or not for us. We are in our upper 20s and half a 4 1/2 year old daughter who is just on the other side of the cut-off date for starting at public schools in September.

In terms of lifestyle, I expect my salary to be around 70k/y before taxes. My wife will also be looking for work (she has an urban planning masters looking for something related or NGO/NPO related) but has nothing lined up yet, but I don't expect she'd be making that much. Generously, her parents have offered around 50k to make a down payment on a place if we chose to go that route, but we will probably rent our first year to get our bearings. Also I don't think it matters, but she is Japanese and *edit: I'm* Japanese/American biracial, I mention this only because after 3 years of grad school in Ann Arbor, she is tired of provincial/country attitudes - I keep telling her we were lucky to be in AA compared to most places in the midwest (I went to high school in northern Utah!) but she did a year study-abroad in Seattle and was spoiled I guess.

Because of the kindergarten cut off thing, I think that gives us a bit more freedom in choosing a safe area to rent for a year, but not necessarily having to worry about being in the best school district (from limited research it looks like both Lincoln and the loop elementary schools are not bad?).

I've read the loop empties out at night, but honestly that sounds like more of a plus than a minus to us. We enjoy the conveniences of city living (Tokyo for 4-5 years) but that has also colored our experience of a city as crime was something we never had to even think about...

We're looking for 2BRs, a den or 3rd bedroom would be a nice bonus for a small office. Also I currently commute by bike 11 miles one way, and she has another 2 years on a car lease, but if we can get rid of it/find someone to take it over, we don't mind (would prefer actually) to go car-less living in a place with convenient markets/etc. Any advice for places to look for the first year? Or places that we may wanna test drive that would line up for our more mid-term goals? If we made the move I guess we'd be in Chicago at least 3-5 years, but that could be more if we like it.

Style of house (high-rise/converted loft/condo) is not too big a deal but we'd like someplace with good sound insulation/family friendly - tired of paper thin apartment living with a kid.

[jonnynonos]

Probably throwing out a figure of a budget that you are looking at/willing to spend would help.

Renting a 2 BR with den and parking in a good area raising a family on 70K sounds pretty tight to me, but is probably doable.

Chicago is no less "provincial" than Ann Arbor. No offense but Ann Arbor is historically known as Little Berkely and unless things have changed radically over the last 20 years, the only city left of it would be Moscow circa 1940.

I can understand some kevetching possibly as an undergrad as the school has largely filled up with rich long Islanders who didn't get into Yale, but the tone of the city has always been extremely liberal and, for lack of a better word, "alternative."

Sounds like you might be a better fit in San Fran if that's going to be a problem. If anything Chicago has more Big 10 people than A2 and is probably more conservative in some ways than Ann Arbor.

[chicagobear]

I think I'd look for an apartment in the Ogden School (24 W. Walton) zone on the near north side. It seems to be a pretty popular neighborhood public school (ie rich white people are willing to send their kids there which is often not the case in Chicago) and is free. Extremely easy commute to the Loop (walk or public transportation) and you can enjoy living in one of the most walkable areas in the country. Your wife and child's race is absolutely a non-issue.

[snoylekim]

I can address some of the housing questions first. It would be helpful to have more certainty or a more specific budget mentioned, because the areas you're interested in aren't cheap . For the South Loop /West Loop - 3 bedroom units aren't very common , and are usually in 'duplex' lofts or townhouses. In the neighborhoods you've listed , most full 2 Bedroom 2 Bath will start renting in the low 2K/month , and up depending on total size , in-unit laundry, etc . There are exceptions, particularly in an area with more vintage buildings, but this is the current norm for the 'true' West Loop/South Loop areas. Any 3 bedroom will rent for more . There are other nice areas in the city , that, while they're a bit further from the center, might be a better fit your housing budget in terms of money and space .
Also when looking, be careful of some units that list as "2 Bedroom" but are actually 1 Bedroom + a den, which is typically a half walled off 6x8 area, or a large walk-in closet .

The school question is a topic by itself - there have been /could be many changes because of CPS closings, etc . I don't have school age kids, but other posters do and can provide far better guidance . Good luck in your search .

[chet everett]

Budget is going to make it murderously difficult to find a family oriented 3br, and frankly even a 2br that is in a semi-detached situation or otherwise "child sound isoloted" building that also has access to decent CPS schools is going to involve some searching...

I am a little perplexed by what the OP / spouse mean about Ann Arbor being "provincial / country" as among Big 10 university towns Ann Arbor sort of stands out as rather more influenced by folks from the NE. In fact that sort of concern would kind of make it hard to fathom this family considering anything other than the most costly parts of Chicago -- Hyde Park, Gold Coast and Lincoln Park are traditionally home to most well educated / globally traveled folks in Chicago...

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Budget is going to make it murderously difficult to find a family oriented 3br, and frankly even a 2br that is in a semi-detached situation or otherwise "child sound isoloted" building that also has access to decent CPS schools is going to involve some searching...

I am a little perplexed by what the OP / spouse mean about Ann Arbor being "provincial / country" as among Big 10 university towns Ann Arbor sort of stands out as rather more influenced by folks from the NE. In fact that sort of concern would kind of make it hard to fathom this family considering anything other than the most costly parts of Chicago -- Hyde Park, Gold Coast and Lincoln Park are traditionally home to most well educated / globally traveled folks in Chicago...

I think he is talking about progressive political ideologies. Anyway, Ann Arbor isn't even close to provincial. I don't think it's unduly influenced by the East Coast either.

It's just a stronghold of old hippies and extremely left leaning typical university politics, and always has been. The zeitgeist there is as left as anywhere in America.

Like I said the influx of wealthy out of staters coming in to attend one of the best public universities in the country over the last 20 years or so might have changed it a little over the years, but I am there all the time and it is still very "alternative" or whatever you want to call it.

Although, I guess being "alternative' has probably settled down a little among the youth since the 90s in general, so it's possible the Izod/Ralph Lauren quotient is more pronounced than ever.

But it's certainly no less progressive than Chicago in any way, shape or form.

[AArch]

Just to clarify: I do not think AA is provincial/country - my better half does. I think it has to do with her experiences with some Michigan kids coming from the upper peninsula/north who have never seen non-white people, and for whom AA is a big city. Why I brought it up is I've been reading about some areas of chicago (Lincoln Park?) being dominated by old frat boy/sorority girl/suburbanites moving in and we'd prefer to avoid those areas.

Regarding housing, 3BR (vs 2), and even parking, are not critical at all, just if they were possible they would have been appreciated, but will recalibrate our search as they don't seem to be! Also DW is not a stay at home mom, so in terms of what we could afford we'd (hopefully) quickly be adding a 2nd income to the mix.

Thanks for the advice thus far.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by AArch

Just to clarify: I do not think AA is provincial/country - my better half does. I think it has to do with her experiences with some Michigan kids coming from the upper peninsula/north who have never seen non-white people, and for whom AA is a big city. Why I brought it up is I've been reading about some areas of chicago (Lincoln Park?) being dominated by old frat boy/sorority girl/suburbanites moving in and we'd prefer to avoid those areas.

Regarding housing, 3BR (vs 2), and even parking, are not critical at all, just if they were possible they would have been appreciated, but will recalibrate our search as they don't seem to be! Also DW is not a stay at home mom, so in terms of what we could afford we'd (hopefully) quickly be adding a 2nd income to the mix.

Thanks for the advice thus far.

Honestly most of the popular neighborhoods are populated by transplants, and most of those transplants are from the Midwest. And a fair amount went to Big 10 schools.

Lakeview and Lincoln Park are the neighborhoods that are notorious for having a Big 10 college campus vibe, but aside from Wrigelyville, which is admittedly a Big 10-style mess, I don't think that paints a real picture of either neighborhood. Like a lot of neighborhoods in Chicago, they can really change block to block. A house in Lincoln Park costs what, a million bucks on average? Those certainly aren't owned by Big 10 kids.

Yeah there are a lot of young kids from Michigan State, Wisconsin, etc., in Lakeview, but Lakeview is also home to Boystown and Belmont Avenue, which is still kind of "indie" though not what it was years ago. West Lakeview is totally different from east Lakeview.

If your more comfortable in neighbohoods where people have facial piercings etc. you are looking at Bucktown, Logan Square, West Town and to a lesser extent Wicker Park these days.

The possibilities are endless but from what you've said I might suggest Ukranian Villiage and the West Town area, it might be possible to give you the space you are looking for there and it is fairly diverse and non-fratty. Although the schools might not really be that great over there, still.

Andersonville, Ravenswood and Lincoln Square also come to mind.

Old Town is really nice but I guess with your concerns, it is pretty white bread.

[Aleking]

If you pick up a provincial/country attitude in AA, you're going to hate Chicago

[marothisu]

There are certainly provinial parts of Chicago as others have hit on - and they're usually the ones where a lot of Big 10 grads tend to settle in such as Lincoln Park and Lakeview. However, there's plenty of non provincial people in these areas. It's a wash basically IMO. I went to college in a small city of Iowa, and although people like to say it here - it can be much worse in the midwest. I have experienced it. However, yes there are some close minded people here still, but I think people on here really exaggerate it. Anyway:

IMO you should try and rent your first year. $70K for a 3 bedroom with all this is going to be tight in the neighborhoods you listed. Single family homes in good neighborhoods in Chicago can be expensive to purchase, although in the same neighborhood the rent may not be too bad.

Do you know where your job will be? If it's in the Loop, to rent first year or something, I'd actually start looking at places in areas like Lincoln Square, parts of Logan Square (some eh areas here and there but some other good ones), Ukrainian Village, etc. The rents here are much lower than in Lincoln Park, for example, people are generally more open minded on average, and getting to the Loop is not that hard.