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What I'm saying is that while both cities have Democratic reputations, Chicago's is born out of a kind of collectivization/union mentality, while Ann Arbor, to anyone remotely familiar with it, is profoundly rooted in the radical 60s/intellectual side of left wing politics.
It's like saying the collective attitude in Bridgeport is similar to Manhattan limousine liberals because both pull the democratic lever. In short, nonsense.
Ann Arbor is a VERY progressives town, far more progressive than Chicago on average, period.
Yes, I know what you're saying and I agree, but we are at a point where the "older generation" is being pushed out. My friend grew up in Bridgeport - his dad pretty damn racist, but one of the reasons Bridgeport is changing is because people like his dad moved out to the burbs, allowing others to move in who might have been afraid of him before. My friend always jokes about it "Once my dad left Bridgeport 10 years ago, the Asians realized it was OK to move there."
The culture in Chicago now is shifting a little bit in some areas I feel. Not people who are more "hippie radical," but the older, more stubborn are being pushed out for the younger people. Like where I live in the Gold Coast. People on here always mention that the Gold Coast is for older people, and what I see now is there's a lot of younger people who are moving here. My building is mainly younger people, and even the two buildings around the corner from me I'm near all the time (especially at their patios in the summer) is almost all people between about 23 and 33 going in and out of. I hardly ever see the old ones going in and out. Same as my friend's building up the street by a few blocks. So I feel as if people in some areas kind of hold onto these attitudes they knew from maybe 10 years ago about a various part of town, and they don't update their view with what may be more of the reality today.
Thanks for updating us on your personal struggles. It is touching.
Does not change the fact that it is going to be very hard for the OP to find a pace that suits their lifestyle with their budget. Gold Coast has a distinct lack of Affordable childcare / pre-school options. Probably safe to say the OP is not going to sign up to send his kid to Francis Xavier Ward at the Cathedral... Also fair to say there is not going to an abundance of large / quiet / cheap apartments in that area. Of course walking access to Museum of Modern Art would be perfect for this family...
Can I picture this family rubbing elbows with Penny Pritzker in Lincon Park? Absoutely ! Of course I suspect Penny pays her housekeeper more than $70k and that is going to really impact the ability of this family to find a place that has the sorts of ammenities they want -- 2br +, quiet building , ideally detached. Needle in a haystack..
Are there spots near Lakeview that don't have the rowdy bar crowd? Sure. Southport pops immeadiately to mind. But when I see townhouses there with prices well over $500k I know the folks buying there have a whole lot more household income than $70k... (or least some kind of really generous family, which again does not sound like it part of the equations for the OP).
Other parts of the city known for having art museums and a more worldly, cerebral crowd? Why Hyde Park / Kenwood. Affordability ? Pretty much as bad , maybe worse, than the other areas mentioned. Pluses? Lots of other folks that want high quality preschool. Minuses? Folks mostly paying BIG money for that...
Could this family maybe find a place in Pilsen that is not going to bust their budget? Maybe. Is it likely that someone accustomed to the relative diverse eating options of Ann Arbor or Tokyo is going to be thrilled that all the fake proletiat types find the elotes AMAZING street food? Who knows. At least Pilsen is physically closer to UIC than Bridgeport and maybe that helps with the attractiveness for arty types. I have seen near zero movements of IIT professional types into Bridgeport...
Does South Loop maybe offer some places that would work for this family? Sorta -- there are some townhouses, as well as more family sized condos, many of which were built with a thought to encouraging families to move into a part of the city that was not very residential for quite some time. But the sticky problem of that less than stellar income rears its head -- more than a few single people who need only a studio or 1 BR have incomes over $70k...
Oak Park or Evanston? Budget. And, please, don't quote me data on average income unless you also can break that down by age and economic strata - all those NU students with no income whatsoever dilute the Evanston numbers and somehow I don't see the OP and his bike-to-work habit being a good fit for the parts of Oak Park where garages are routinely broken into for bicylces...
I really feel for the OP. If the job offer is really an improvement over his current situation he kind of has to move up, but it very well might mean a step down in current lifestyle or at least some big compromises. Moving to someplace like Berwyn or Forest Park is going to be far more budget friendly. It'll mean taking the El instead of bicycle. Access to art museums? 20 minute public transit. Whole Foods? Gonna have to drive to Oak Park...
Dollars and cents often dictatate what trade offs one has to make.
Personally I would look into Roscoe Village or Southport Corridor. These neighborhoods are more family friendly and still close to many cultural activities.
Yes it does, and access to them is far from uniform...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnynonos
Well anyway if this is about cultural amenities more than anything, the whole discussion is moot!
Chicago definitely has a lot of cultural amenities, no doubt about that.
The couple of million people that live inside Chicago range in income from literally ZERO to tens of millions dollars per year. (which, factoring students and drug company executives ,is not all that different from Ann Arbor)
The "cultural ammenities" of Chicago are disproportionately availble to those whose incomes are such that they able to afford the costly near-to-the-lake areas. This is distinctively different than a true college town like Ann Arnor where relatively inexpensive student oriented rentals are often centrally located. (the relatively compact nature of Ann Arbor also means that the millionaires can drive from their quiet homes to what ever they choose in their Prius with minimal time / hassle..) Of such arrangements, of cheap housing in the core may result in a hick from some backwoods town living right next to a world traveling grad student, as our OP has found.
Everything is a trade off.
(affordability of apartments in Roscoe Village is pretty good, but actual family sized homes tend to be as costly Lincoln Park, and I've already addressed affordability of Southport Corridor..)
I really feel for the OP. If the job offer is really an improvement over his current situation he kind of has to move up, but it very well might mean a step down in current lifestyle or at least some big compromises. Moving to someplace like Berwyn or Forest Park is going to be far more budget friendly. It'll mean taking the El instead of bicycle. Access to art museums? 20 minute public transit. Whole Foods? Gonna have to drive to Oak Park...
Dollars and cents often dictatate what trade offs one has to make.
Appreciate the advice regarding the realities of our budget. I will say we live simply, and I think an annual membership to a museum or two ($75/year each?) would increase my wife's happiness by a significant amount compared to life in AA. Also living in Tokyo has the benefit that we are used to small/tiny living spaces, so our standards for "family-living" are a bit different than average. Sound-proofing comment from earlier was more about type of construction (concrete vs old wood framed house) than anything, and allowing me to be a bit less stressed about worrying about being the family that gets on all the single people's nerves. Under our current budget we spend $1k/month on our daughter's montessori preschool, so are prepared to make sacrifices in creature comforts/superfluous niceties in order to take care of things which we deem more important. I was thinking that if we lived in a good enough area (I like that Ogden school mentioned earlier) we could avoid that tuition payment and just apply it to housing, so that'd bump us more to the 2.5k range in housing costs.
This is actually my first career-oriented job (other than my graduate research assistant position which paid full tuition/insurance/small stipend), and the opportunity is a pretty great so we are prepared to make adjustments. Also just to reiterate 70k is our starting income, hoping that in a city like Chicago my wife can find something more in line with her interests (she's currently working at a Japanese auto-parts supplier which pays well) which may not pay so well (30-40k?) but would help us clear the 100k/hh income hurdle: so if things are tight, but doable, the first few months while she looks for work, that'd be alright after she found something to help out. Also my own salary/future looks pretty bright (currently being recruited by 3 firms while my friends have had zero luck for the past year) so this is more of a starting point/takeoff than a cruising altitude.
As chet mentioned: we don't have access to someone who will buy us a place, but a down payment is available (50k) which has made me wonder about the possibilities of buying a loft/apartment with a IHDA/FHA mortgage like this place is offering: 235vanburen.com from what I understand it's difficult to get such a loan due to current rules around owner/renter occupancies and the health of the HOA. However mortgage/insurance/tax/hoa don't seem too out of line with our budget (~2-2.5kish all told).
Also compared to other cities like NY/San Fran, part of the reason I'm attracted to Chicago is the lower housing costs (seems like its more like 1.5-2.5k here compared to 2.5-4.5k in the other places). Also the guaranteed spot in in a good elementary school helps with housing costs vs the lottery in San Francisco. Looking through trulia I've seen a fair number of places on the near north side for <500k, and some lofts in west loop for <400k as well as high rises in south loop like the one above that seem to be doable, of course the wisdom of buying a condo/hoa in the current market is something that makes us wonder.
Anyways, lots of good stuff here, have given me lots of insights/neighborhoods to look into. Looking forward to heading out next week, will probably stick around a day or two and explore some of the neighborhoods that have been brought up.
If you want advice about that particular building (235vanburen.com) you came to the right place.
Cannot image a worst choice for someone with a family. It is sandwiched between the Eisenhower expressway and a block of parking garages that mostly serve the traders and ithers in the nearby highrises. The Wells St El rumbles along east of the building. Their is a grimy liquor store that attests bums. Arounf one corner is a notorius bar that caters to the rowdy crowd in the financial services industry. Around the other side of the building their is giant energy related cooling tower that exhaust hot air in the summer and runs 24x7 , 365...
No greenspace of any kind anywhere near this building...
Honestly in Chicago it is not just your budget that is going to be problematic it is a whole set of things that are really going to need to be recalibrated. This is not Manhattan. We have no Greewich Village. Fire safety codes have strongly discouraged tiny studios in commerical style buildings. In some ways this is good, there are nice spacious safe apartments and not too many ridiculous impositions upon either residents or businesses BUT you are going to have a huge challenge finding something worth buying for your family that is both convenient to employement and a pleasant place for your family to spend the day. Even trying to rent something like this is not easy -- the influx of kids from Midwestern colleges seeking FUN at rowdy bars sounds exactly what you want to avoid...
I really thing you are gonna have to weigh using rapid transit from Forest Parl or Berwyn against unrealistic compromise
Come in Chett you are saying on a budget of 100k they can't ind ONE decent 2br in a cool neighborhood with good schools?!
I suppose they could probably rent something that is not going to make them too crazy for a year or so, but if they try to buy on that budget the odds of it being a wise move are remote...
There are certainly some spots that are going to be acceptable on a rental budget of $2000k a month or even a little less, but still gonna be some trade offs -- that sorta of proletiat section of Pilsen might be close enough to what parts Ann Arbor that the transition is not too bad... OTOH thinking of this family having to deal with terrible CPS situation and weird separation that the Dan Ryan makes for folks that would prefer to ride to work in the Loop I almost hesitate to send them that far...
Competion for a decent school in the coming chaos that the massive schools closings of CPS IS ALL BY ITSELF reason enough for any responsible parents to stay away from Chicago this year and try out a suburban rental first...
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Yes it does, and access to them is far from uniform...
