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This topic is crazy to me because I know that Chicago isn't the only great city. And not every Midwestern smart person wants to move here. When people talk about this being fly over country and say there is nothing in the Midwest outside of Chicago is not writing from experience. There are many Chicagoans living in St Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City and Indianapolis who don't look back. That tells us something about people who think Chicago is the only deal in the Midwest.
This is correct. I think the point of the thread is more like the fact that Chicago can attract even more talent. Minneapolis area is a great economic part of the country, for example, but U of Minnesota has many very intelligent students. Many will end up working in the same area, but at least my take on it is that Chicago could do even more to attract that talent.
Chicago does a great job of attracting talent from schools like Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin, Purdue, Notre Dame, Northwestern, U of Chicago, IIT, DePaul, and to a lesser extent Ohio State and Iowa State, but there are other great schools which it's not attracting as much for sure because cities such as Minneapolis and St. Louis/Kansas City still have some great opportunities career wise.
I can speak from experience of friends that for students at some of the great universities in the Minneapolis area, Chicago isn't a thought. However, it's not because they don't like Chicago - it's because they aren't exposed to it. When I grew up in Minnesota, I was rarely exposed to Chicago and the only thing people talked about was Minneapolis. To many people who grow up in Minnesota, Minneapolis is like the apex of where you can live. For people who grew in the area, many love it and don't explore a lot outside of the area. People can be very provincial there about their state. Sports can play a role in it too. I can't tell you how many times growing up I heard that Chicagoans were utter *******s and it was always phrased in the context of sports, but the stereotype expanded out to all of its residents.
I have numerous friends who went to colleges in that area and upon their first visits to Chicago, at least 2/3 of them clamoring to move to Chicago instead. It's really an exposure thing, at least based off my experience and my friends'. Minnesota is pretty close to Chicago, but you'd be really surprised at how many people there are really uneducated about Chicago, but could probably tell you all about Sioux Falls or Fargo.
This is correct. I think the point of the thread is more like the fact that Chicago can attract even more talent. Minneapolis area is a great economic part of the country, for example, but U of Minnesota has many very intelligent students. Many will end up working in the same area, but at least my take on it is that Chicago could do even more to attract that talent.
Chicago does a great job of attracting talent from schools like Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin, Purdue, Notre Dame, Northwestern, U of Chicago, IIT, DePaul, and to a lesser extent Ohio State and Iowa State, but there are other great schools which it's not attracting as much for sure because cities such as Minneapolis and St. Louis/Kansas City still have some great opportunities career wise.
I can speak from experience of friends that for students at some of the great universities in the Minneapolis area, Chicago isn't a thought. However, it's not because they don't like Chicago - it's because they aren't exposed to it. When I grew up in Minnesota, I was rarely exposed to Chicago and the only thing people talked about was Minneapolis. To many people who grow up in Minnesota, Minneapolis is like the apex of where you can live. For people who grew in the area, many love it and don't explore a lot outside of the area. People can be very provincial there about their state. Sports can play a role in it too. I can't tell you how many times growing up I heard that Chicagoans were utter *******s and it was always phrased in the context of sports, but the stereotype expanded out to all of its residents.
I have numerous friends who went to colleges in that area and upon their first visits to Chicago, at least 2/3 of them clamoring to move to Chicago instead. It's really an exposure thing, at least based off my experience and my friends'. Minnesota is pretty close to Chicago, but you'd be really surprised at how many people there are really uneducated about Chicago, but could probably tell you all about Sioux Falls or Fargo.
This may seem strange to you but I see Minneapolis as one of the best places to live. I can't live there at this point because of weather and distance from family but I've always thought of it as one of the best kept secrets.
I grew up and went to college in St Louis. I left college and lived in Durham and Charlotte NC, Memphis and now Chicago.
When I left St Louis, I left thinking I needed to expand my life outside of St Louis and the Midwest. As far as a St Louis and Chicago comparison... they don't in any way! I like them both for different reasons its kind of like comparing a steak dinner to a salad. It depends on what stage you are in life and what's conducive to your needs now. St. Louis and other cities like it will never have a Gold Coast type experience. Nor will they have a rail system like CTA. It doesn't have to be like Chicago to be a functional city. They do have other benefits.
I've experience major changes in my life the past year and Chicago is no longer the place and St Louis is more in line with what I'm looking for. I am with you on not liking the newer Sunbelt cities. They don't do it for me at all.
Which is why I could see myself going back to St. Louis in the future if what I desire shifts. If St. Louis continues to revitalize, I could definitely see myself one day desiring an urban lifestyle back home as most of my family is spread throughout the metro.
I do understand why people desire what St. Louis has to offer right now in comparison to Chicago, but it's just not currently what I desire.
Although, I will say that if I ever desire a suburban lifestyle that I would probably choose St. Louis over Chicago as well.
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This topic is crazy to me because I know that Chicago isn't the only great city. And not every Midwestern smart person wants to move here. When people talk about this being fly over country and say there is nothing in the Midwest outside of Chicago is not writing from experience. There are many Chicagoans living in St Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City and Indianapolis who don't look back. That tells us something about people who think Chicago is the only deal in the Midwest.
I think you'll find that that statement can apply to any large city that dominates its region due to its size. Not everyone wants to move to said city, and not everyone originally from said city wants to stay.
For example, I'm sure New York isn't getting all the smart people from the Northeast, and that there are plenty of New Yorkers who have moved to places like Boston and Philadelphia.
I grew up and went to college in St Louis. I left college and lived in Durham and Charlotte NC, Memphis and now Chicago.
When I left St Louis, I left thinking I needed to expand my life outside of St Louis and the Midwest. As far as a St Louis and Chicago comparison... they don't in any way! I like them both for different reasons its kind of like comparing a steak dinner to a salad. It depends on what stage you are in life and what's conducive to your needs now. St. Louis and other cities like it will never have a Gold Coast type experience. Nor will they have a rail system like CTA. It doesn't have to be like Chicago to be a functional city. They do have other benefits.
I've experience major changes in my life the past year and Chicago is no longer the place and St Louis is more in line with what I'm looking for. I am with you on not liking the newer Sunbelt cities. They don't do it for me at all.
This topic is crazy to me because I know that Chicago isn't the only great city. And not every Midwestern smart person wants to move here. When people talk about this being fly over country and say there is nothing in the Midwest outside of Chicago is not writing from experience. There are many Chicagoans living in St Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City and Indianapolis who don't look back. That tells us something about people who think Chicago is the only deal in the Midwest.
First in bold: Sure, yeah, when you compare the superlative, one of a kind, "only found in a select few American cities" yeah Chicago and St. Louis have nothing in common.
I wonder if all this debate and confusion would be avoided if Chicago was subdivided into burroughs, that every knows. Obviously Chicago is not built that way. Its not a bunch of islands and peninsulas, but one can at least look at the outer burroughs and say this burrough (Queens, Bronx, Staten Island) has this in common with other east coast cities (Philly, Baltimore or what have you.) They may not, I'm just using the point of how other world class cities are broken apart by physical barriers, thereby making them easier to understand. People can just isolate Manhattan or even Brooklyn, and say its just THESE areas are nothing like the rest of the east coast.
Because in reality, more people in Chicago live in an immediate neighborhood that has more in common with St. Louis than with the Gold Coast or what have you. In fact I would say that the neighborhoods that are most dominated by late 19th century construction (look at my recent thread) actually DO look like St. Louis counterparts because of when they were built. I think it would be hard to argue against Hyde Park or Logan Square having a similar feel to Soulard or the Central West End or what have you. And these are just a couple examples.
Second bolded:
But he mentioned sunbelt cities and used LA as an example. LA has virtually nothing in common with the "new" sunbelt cities. LAs days when it was a collection of suburbs are long gone.
This may seem strange to you but I see Minneapolis as one of the best places to live. I can't live there at this point because of weather and distance from family but I've always thought of it as one of the best kept secrets.
It's not really that strange. If I wanted a smaller city that was a little slower paced, I'd consider living there. The winters are brutal - much worse than Chicago, but the summers just like Chicago are very nice. I'm used to the weather though. It was -10 the other night as I was back in Minnesota but it didn't phase me. I actually liked it!
However, it's a little small in mentality sometimes and can be very cliquey in a way. A lot of people who live there grew up in Minnesota, though there's a sizable immigrant population which is great. The area has a lot of people, but the city itself isn't as big as people think at around 400,000. St. Paul is nice too and has a population of under 300,000. Just slightly larger than St. Louis is Minneapolis.
I have friend in Chicago who grew up in the bay area but lived in Minneapolis for awhile. His complaint about Minneapolis is the thing I mentioned above that it can be hard to get in a group of friends sometimes because so many people living there grew up with one another. When you do, it's kind of small enough in areas you may hang out in that word travels fast about you type of thing. I'm not lying either when I say that at least 80% of my graduating class in high school (over 400 people) stayed in state to do their college, and that was normal for all other graduating classes I saw.
In some areas there is a progressive feel but in others, especially once you get out of the city for the majority of places, it's almost like a country mentality. I guess growing up in the state I have had the (dis)pleasure of knowing this first hand, but I find the non progressive people in Minnesota more racist than the ones in the Chicago area. Many, many, many, many more people of the "YEAH! Beer, huntin, 4 wheelin, and 'Merica!" type Minnesota, even in the Minneapolis area, than in the Chicago area by far as well based on my experience.
Because in reality, more people in Chicago live in an immediate neighborhood that has more in common with St. Louis than with the Gold Coast or what have you. In fact I would say that the neighborhoods that are most dominated by late 19th century construction (look at my recent thread) actually DO look like St. Louis counterparts because of when they were built. I think it would be hard to argue against Hyde Park or Logan Square having a similar feel to Soulard or the Central West End or what have you. And these are just a couple examples.
In the end, architecture has an impact on the feel of an area obviously but not majority. IN the end, the types of people and establishments that are there have a vast impact on it when you look beneath the surface. Parts of St. Louis and Cincinnati may have more in common with NYC architecturally, than Chicago, but that doesn't mean the actual feel of them when you add people is anything like NYC.
Second bolded:
But he mentioned sunbelt cities and used LA as an example. LA has virtually nothing in common with the "new" sunbelt cities. LAs days when it was a collection of suburbs are long gone.
I used LA as the named example due to members of my family living there. I realize that it's more urban than places like Houston.
What I will say though is that Los Angeles did not feel properly anchored to me from the vibe that I got while visiting in comparison to the type of cities that I desire. It's downtown certainly isn't what you'd expect, and, yes, I understand that LA has multiple downtowns in a sense, but it's just not something that I would find desirable.
I prefer the more compact cities with the obvious shining downtown that you'll more readily find in areas like the Midwest or the Northeast.
Granted, I will say that I have not been to NYC yet, and that the largest city that I've been to is Los Angeles at this point. I'm visiting NYC next month, so we'll see what I think of it. I have some friends who think I'm going to fall in love, and then others who think I'm going to dislike it because it's too big. Either way, I'm excited
^ Agreed. Half of my family lives in LA and while the city is getting better and the population density isn't exactly low, there's many areas that don't have that anchored feeling as you state. There are areas that are good about it though, but many areas that are not. We'll see in 20 years though what it's like..
Because in reality, more people in Chicago live in an immediate neighborhood that has more in common with St. Louis than with the Gold Coast or what have you. In fact I would say that the neighborhoods that are most dominated by late 19th century construction (look at my recent thread) actually DO look like St. Louis counterparts because of when they were built. I think it would be hard to argue against Hyde Park or Logan Square having a similar feel to Soulard or the Central West End or what have you. And these are just a couple examples.
I used LA as the named example due to members of my family living there. I realize that it's more urban than places like Houston.
What I will say though is that Los Angeles did not feel properly anchored to me from the vibe that I got while visiting in comparison to the type of cities that I desire. It's downtown certainly isn't what you'd expect, and, yes, I understand that LA has multiple downtowns in a sense, but it's just not something that I would find desirable.
I prefer the more compact cities with the obvious shining downtown that you'll more readily find in areas like the Midwest or the Northeast.
Granted, I will say that I have not been to NYC yet, and that the largest city that I've been to is Los Angeles at this point. I'm visiting NYC next month, so we'll see what I think of it. I have some friends who think I'm going to fall in love, and then others who think I'm going to dislike it because it's too big. Either way, I'm excited
Absolutely and completely understand. Different strokes for different folks and thats whats great about our country, is that we have so many different cities.
LA dozens of bite-size urban cores distributed evenly across the country separated by hills with hiking trails is my dream city, which I'm very happy in.
I love that I am visiting family and friends for the holidays in the Chicago suburbs, and while I always go downtown/city proper while I'm in town, I just can't live there. But I enjoyed going to the Christkindlmarket as I do every holiday season, I went to the Field museum and saw they're special exhibits, Saturday I'm going to a couple microbrews.
I can actually appreciate Chicago when I relieve myself of the pressure that I supposed to live there and accept it the way it is just to be around others my age and single, just because I grew up within 40 miles of there.
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