NYC family of 6: Move to or Chicago or SF? Anyone lived in both? (Anna: condo, violent crime)

[Water 4 the Pool]

This is tough. I also threw this in the city v city thread and SF thread.

We are both 40 with four kids ages 6 and under and have lived in Manhattan for 14 years. We're both from the Midwest and have deep family ties there. I have interviewed in the Midwest and Bay Area a few times over the years, receiving offers but declining them. But now it's time to move.

I am about to get a job offer in San Francisco (Redwood Shores commute), and likely another in Chicago (in the city). Both have always been on our list of possible places to move, though neither of us has ever lived in either place. I am inclined to live in SF proper if we move there, but Chicago could be either the city or a northern suburb.

We love city living here, but eventually want a house with a yard and good public schools (or a good Catholic school as a second option). Three boys and their sister need room to play outside.

I love Lake Michigan and the change of seasons--I grew up in South Haven, MI right on the Lake and its beach.

I love Northern California and the variety/diversity--both geographically and culturally--that our family could experience. We thrive on that here. How do SF/Chicago compare culturally?

I only want to buy one car.

I'm afraid that my parents (aged 72) would rarely be able to visit us on the west coast, and that we would only get home once/twice per year. Right now we are spending much of our vacation time and budget going back to the Midwest once/twice to see family. It would be nice to see them more often without making a heroic effort.

I'm concerned about all the gun violence in Chicago. I know it's everywhere, but every time I go to the Tribune webpage, a kid has been shot.

Taxes?

I know both cities have good restaurants. Right?

I know the cost of living is lower in Chicago, but SF would imbue us with a sense of adventure, I suppose, and I feel that the kids are still young enough for us to do this and perhaps move to the Midwest in a few years.

I think it would be harder to move to SF for a few reasons, but we do not shy away from a challenge if it's worthwhile, which I believe a move like this could be.

Help--what am I not thinking of?

TIA.

[marothisu]

I haven't lived in San Fran (my grandmother's side used to and I have a good number of friends residing there now) but believe I can answer a few questions based on what I know.

1) It is undoubtedly cheaper in Chicago to buy a house versus San Francisco. You can get a house with a yard in it in Chicago and it probably won't be right near downtown (unless you pay over $1 million for it) but it's possible. You can get a decent house in some other areas of town, like Irving Park, for even under $500,000 for a family of 6 (really depends on how many bedrooms you want). If you want to buy a condo and not care about the yard, you can get really nice ones near downtown for under $400,000. Of course, for a family of 6, if that's 5 bedrooms then it can be a lot more expensive than I'm listing here. In the suburbs, it's a lot cheaper.

2) The public schools in the city are good until High School. The problem is that the amazing high schools are high selective enrollment schools that are really hard to get into. The other ones are expensive tuition based ones. There are some good catholic schools. Overall, the public high schools in the suburbs are better.

3) Food. San Francisco has some great food, but Chicago is easily above it and you won't hear many people disagreeing with that. In fact, you will hear many experts say that Chicago is even a better/more important food city than NYC. Although NYC has more restaurants (bigger city), Chicago also has some of the top restaurants in the world just like NYC. The food scene is awesome here though, big time.

4) Taxes. Property taxes can be high, but I don't know a TON about this. Sales/use tax in the city of Chicago is one of the highest in the country.

5) Public transit. Chicago is 2nd to NYC in the US to this. NYC of course blows everywhere else out of the water, but Chicago is 2nd after it. 8 train lines, some which are 24 hours. Bus system all over the city. Suburban bus system (PACE) and the Metra which is a commuter rail which goes into southern Wisconsin (Kenosha) and very, very western Indiana even.

[hlcc]

I live in SF for about 5 years and am currently in Chicago (Gold Coast).

My 2 cents

Culturally SF definitely have more of a Chinese influence than Chicago. Certain districts such as Richmond, Sunset etc are predominantly Asian.

Chicago's gun violence is pretty bad but its mostly confined to certain areas (the south side). So I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Food wise, SF is vastly better in terms of Asian cuisines. Both in terms of the quality and in terms of accessibility (eg they are more dispersed versed more concentrated in Chicago). In terms of non-Asian cuisines, Chicago is better.

One thing to note about SF is that the weather can be drastically different depending on the location. For example, the inner sunset district (right next to golden gate park) tend to me significantly colder, more damp and more hazy compared to Downtown SF or SOMA.

[marothisu]

I agree about the Asian-ness in San Fran. Definitely a plus there, but let's not get carried away...Chicago still has some very good Asian food and a lot of it too. Obviously not on average to the level of San Francisco, but it's definitely not bad.

[maclock]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I agree about the Asian-ness in San Fran. Definitely a plus there, but let's not get carried away...Chicago still has some very good Asian food and a lot of it too. Obviously not on average to the level of San Francisco, but it's definitely not bad.

Well, it depends what kind(s) of Asian food one is looking for. If Chinese food is your thing, then Chicago is a wasteland. Don't get me wrong -- I love Chicago, but the good Chinese restaurants in Chicago are few and far between.

[jonnynonos]

Never lived in SF but I would say... The most sophisticated/artsy people I know, the only place people moved FROM Chicago was San Fran.

Violent crime is mostly confined to certain areas.

That being said, I have a friend who moved back to Chicago from San Fran and when asked why he said "Chicago is a BIG city!"

It's a big city like NY. You know what that entails...all the good and bad.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by maclock

Well, it depends what kind(s) of Asian food one is looking for. If Chinese food is your thing, then Chicago is a wasteland. Don't get me wrong -- I love Chicago, but the good Chinese restaurants in Chicago are few and far between.

San Fran (and NYC) is obviously better for that, but a wasteland? Not a "wasteland." My girlfriend is from Asia and of Chinese descent and used to live in Shanghai. She's only been in the US for 3 years. "Wasteland" has not been one of the words or even close she's described the chinese food here. She doesn't think it's overly amazing, but said there's good Chinese places here for sure. Obviously she prefers San Fran's, but no...nowhere near "wasteland" has been a word she or her friends from the same area have described.

[chet everett]

Four kids under 14 in Manhattan ? How space do you have now? How much can you spend when you move? Do kids go to public school now?

Brother-in-law grew in SF Bay Area. Straight arrow. Went to Annapolis. Served aboard surface ships. Retired early in San Diego. Has civilian job there now. Cannot believe how dramatic our weather is, how many expensive places there are to live inland and how good our suburban public schools are -- apparently many of the brightest kids in the military thT met in the Navy hailed from the region...

Personally I would not be high on the "adventure" aspect of things if kids are getting close to high school. Lots of good reasons to give kids some extra stability at that age.

Aging parents are also a factor. Grandparents can be great positive for kids...

[maclock]

Originally Posted by marothisu

San Fran (and NYC) is obviously better for that, but a wasteland? Not a "wasteland." My girlfriend is from Asia and of Chinese descent and used to live in Shanghai. She's only been in the US for 3 years. "Wasteland" has not been one of the words or even close she's described the chinese food here. She doesn't think it's overly amazing, but said there's good Chinese places here for sure. Obviously she prefers San Fran's, but no...nowhere near "wasteland" has been a word she or her friends from the same area have described.

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point, marothisu. I thought the Chinese food that I tried throughout much of Chicago was pretty dreadful. There were one or two good places, but those places were exceptions to the rule.

Look north to Canada, where Chinese people are basically the Mexicans of the frozen plains. Chinese food is better up there in almost every city of any consequence. Montreal is a notable exception to that general trend.

Chicago does have some dandy Mexican grub, however. I don't think that should be a point of controversy.

[plates]

Originally Posted by Water 4 the Pool

I'm concerned about all the gun violence in Chicago. I know it's everywhere, but every time I go to the Tribune webpage, a kid has been shot.

Unless you plan on being involved in gang activity, you don't have to worry in your case.

Chicago seems to be your city since you seem to want it more other than the above which has been dispelled.

South Haven is only about two hours away as well.