NYC family of 6: Move to or Chicago or SF? Anyone lived in both? (Evanston: for sale, real estate)

[chet everett]

I apparently have to "spread some reputation around" but I completely agree that too many folks STILL have this twisted view that "sophistication" has some sort of geographical limit and if you ain't on "the coast" you're the land of bumpkins and hayseeds. Of course when elect tools like Blagovich and Jesse we make bumpkins & hayseeds look mighty sharp by comparison...

Frankly the more I think about for the OP with an aging parent and kids that could really benefit from having that contact that would be slam dunk for me. If the OP times it right / things work out maybe when the littlest one goes to college he/she can steered toward the Golden State and then the OP can move out to SF for what might put them close to retirement...

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I wouldn't say Chicago is lacking in sophistication. I'm not quite sure what that word means these days. I actually have spent more time in London than New York, and I would say Chicago does not have that vibrancy, which is probably similar to NY. It's simply not as big as a city, and is not as international of a city.

But in terms of sophistication... I'm sure you can go hang out at the Artist's Cafe and talk Kafka until your little head falls off. Someone could visit the Modern Wing, CSO, Grant Park Orchestra, Summer Dance, Chicago Humanities Festival, Lollapalooza, the MCA until they were completely and totally insufferable.

In fact:

We got our own big paper, the Chicago Tri-bune, and some of us folks is known to read it daily! And we also got the Internet, so if you want, you can even read a paper from London England or Tai-wan!

Hell, I even know a few people who get the New York Times delivered all the way out here, if you can believe it!

[jonnynonos]

If you really want to be sophisticated hang out at Aria and start crying at the bar. When someone asks you what's wrong say, "They played the second movement of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto." You will attract all of the right people.

[Water 4 the Pool]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I apparently have to "spread some reputation around" but I completely agree that too many folks STILL have this twisted view that "sophistication" has some sort of geographical limit and if you ain't on "the coast" you're the land of bumpkins and hayseeds. Of course when elect tools like Blagovich and Jesse we make bumpkins & hayseeds look mighty sharp by comparison...

Frankly the more I think about for the OP with an aging parent and kids that could really benefit from having that contact that would be slam dunk for me. If the OP times it right / things work out maybe when the littlest one goes to college he/she can steered toward the Golden State and then the OP can move out to SF for what might put them close to retirement...

A former colleague who is 15 years older than me did just that--worked in Wisconsin for one company for over 25 years, ascending to the top job in his department and qualifying for the pension at age 53. When his youngest daughter went to SF for college, he interviewed/accepted a similar top job in SF and subsequently retired from his company--and moved out there. That's playing your cards right.

For my family and for a number of reasons, I think our window to go to SF right now is closing quickly, if it hasn't already. As you note above, with aging parents and four kids, I should strongly consider returning closer to family. And family reasons aside, it's likely a more prudent financial choice if I want to help all those kids with college down the road.

The jobs are comparable and both very good and I can continue a pretty good career at either place. But the prospect of moving to Chicago produces little excitement (the safe, practical choice) while the thought to moving to SF is sort of scary but completely exhilarating. My wife and I looked at SF as a family adventure. However, we're the parents now and the potentially exciting choice is not always the best one.

Thanks again to all for your thoughts.

[Water 4 the Pool]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I wouldn't say Chicago is lacking in sophistication. I'm not quite sure what that word means these days. I actually have spent more time in London than New York, and I would say Chicago does not have that vibrancy, which is probably similar to NY. It's simply not as big as a city, and is not as international of a city.

NYC and London are "world cities" while Chicago is "the" great American city. You're right--that same urban vibrancy and international flavor is probably not as evident in Chicago. There's a sense of excitement and anticipation in NYC and London--the best of everything is right outside your door. In NYC, the streets are full of people and restaurants are still busy at midnight in many neighborhoods. The best is right outside your door and mediocrity will not cut it here.

I really like that vitality and have actually grown accustomed to it, but now with my truckload of kids--it doesn't matter as much. I hope to get a dose of that in Chicago, too, but I don't know.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Water 4 the Pool

NYC and London are "world cities" while Chicago is "the" great American city. You're right--that same urban vibrancy and international flavor is probably not as evident in Chicago. There's a sense of excitement and anticipation in NYC and London--the best of everything is right outside your door. In NYC, the streets are full of people and restaurants are still busy at midnight in many neighborhoods. The best is right outside your door and mediocrity will not cut it here.

I really like that vitality and have actually grown accustomed to it, but now with my truckload of kids--it doesn't matter as much. I hope to get a dose of that in Chicago, too, but I don't know.

There are a number of neighborhoods in Chicago like this. In fact, there's an area 1.5 blocks away from my apartment that is busy until 4am on the weekends and 1am-2am on the weekdays. People sit outside at the park and converse. I have gotten gelato at this area at a gelato stand at 3am.

I agree NYC, London, etc are absolute tops, but Chicago especially in the summer time is VERY vibrant. IN fact, in 2010 I spent almost no time at home every day. I only used my apartment for sleeping, breakfast (not all the time though), showering, getting dressed, storing my stuff, etc. I was out and about every day until at least 1am and many times 3am-5am.

Chicago is not as 24 hours as NYC, but it is simply not a "close early" city. There are many bars that don't close until 4am or 5am on the weekends (some of these are open until 4am or 5am on weekdays even). Many restaurants that don't close until either close to midnight or 2am. I have a 24 hour restaurant right near me and an eatery 1/2 block away that closes at 5am..for example.

[jonnynonos]

Again, I haven't spent much time in NY. The time I have... I thought it was fine. London was mind-blowing... Bentleys and Rolls everywhere, the most bananas shopping and stores I have ever seen, celebrities all over, and I am a huge history buff so also loved all of the history.

Actually, London shuts down around midnight. Crazy.

Most countries just have one city that is the media, fashion, retail, celebrity capital. Obviously that is NY. You really can't compare Chicago and New York. Or London.

Chicago is not that level of international city.

It doesn't mean it's better or worse, it's just not the premier American city. It's the second city.

But in terms of everything being outside your door, unless you are a Sheik who is used to taking over the third floor of Herod's or eating at Masa every night, acting like anyone who is even remotely normal can't find every kind of indulgence they could possible imagine in Chicago is just kind of grandstanding.

There are a lot of billionaires in this city who are apparently well content with the level of culture, sophistication, access and vibrancy it offers.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

There are a lot of billionaires in this city who are apparently well content with the level of culture, sophistication, access and vibrancy it offers.

I live in the Gold Coast and I literally cannot go 1 day in the Spring, Summer, or Fall without seeing one of the following driving around: Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Astin Martin, Bugatti. As a matter of fact, I've seen the Bugatti Veyron sport edition parked infront of Gibson's, which is a $2.1 million car. I have seen the President of Singapore eating at a pizza place near me, and have eaten at the table next to one of the heads of the National Bank of China.


I agree. Chicago is not THE premier city, but that shouldn't deter anyone. The city still stays open late, there's a lot of world class things here as well as people. There are billionaires here and thousands upon thousands of millionaires. Many of these people could live almost anywhere in the world if they wanted to.

Interesting to note here. The number and percent of millionaires (sorted by % of millionaires of the city descending) of the top 10 cities with the most millionaires:

City, # Millionaires, % Millionaires
Washington DC, 164400, 26.6%
San Francisco, 147400, 18.1%
Boston, 109800, 17.6%
Detroit, 92100, 13%
San Jose, 88800, 9.2%
New York City, 720000, 8.7%
Chicago, 212300, 7.8%
Philadelphia, 110400, 7.2%
Los Angeles, 252500, 6.7%
Houston, 96700, 4.5%

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...tle=1_New_York

[jonnynonos]

Yeah, there are a lot of cars like that in the GC. Particularly because of the dealership. (As well as geriatrics trying to get laid on Rush Street.) In London though you saw them with the frequency you see Mercedes here.

Regarding your second post, that is my point, unless you have such bizarrely rarefied international tastes that you are functionally insane I just cannot imagine anyone of virtually any means being like "You just cannot get a good risotto in Chicago!" or have any complaints about the shopping, food, entertainment options etc.

Yeah the retail is better in London, it's even better there than NY, and I appreciated it from a voyeuristic perspective, but realisticially how many men can't find, for example, clothes they like here, for 99 percent of us there is a wide array of stuff that is accessible as well as tons of stuff that is so far out of our price range we will never think about buying it.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I live in the Gold Coast and I literally cannot go 1 day in the Spring, Summer, or Fall without seeing one of the following driving around: Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Astin Martin, Bugatti. As a matter of fact, I've seen the Bugatti Veyron sport edition parked infront of Gibson's, which is a $2.1 million car. I have seen the President of Singapore eating at a pizza place near me, and have eaten at the table next to one of the heads of the National Bank of China.


I agree. Chicago is not THE premier city, but that shouldn't deter anyone. The city still stays open late, there's a lot of world class things here as well as people. There are billionaires here and thousands upon thousands of millionaires. Many of these people could live almost anywhere in the world if they wanted to.

Interesting to note here. The number and percent of millionaires (sorted by % of millionaires of the city descending) of the top 10 cities with the most millionaires:

City, # Millionaires, % Millionaires
Washington DC, 164400, 26.6%
San Francisco, 147400, 18.1%
Boston, 109800, 17.6%
Detroit, 92100, 13%
San Jose, 88800, 9.2%
New York City, 720000, 8.7%
Chicago, 212300, 7.8%
Philadelphia, 110400, 7.2%
Los Angeles, 252500, 6.7%
Houston, 96700, 4.5%

American Cities With The Most Millionaires: 24/7 Wall St.

Thirteen percent of Detroit city's population are millionaires?! Now that's really surprising.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Thirteen percent of Detroit city's population are millionaires?! Now that's really surprising.

I'm guessing it wasn't that high even just 7 years ago when the population was higher.