Wondering what culture is like in Chicago (Columbus: high school, minimum wage)

[JKHOSU]

Hi everyone,

I am a composer and musician originally from the East Coast. I am moving to Chicago in a couple months and I am going to be starting an orchestra with strings. The orchestra meets 6 days a week (Sunday is off). I want to rehearse 6 AM-7:30 AM or 6:30-8:00 AM and I want to have tight discipline and no BS so we can make as much progress as possible. If people show up late, one warning or maybe two and then get rid of them and replace them with someone who actually wants to be there. I'll be dressed in white shirt and tie and they don't have to go that far, but they have to dress professionally.

On the East Coast this scenario is very possible once the funding is worked out. There is such a hard-work culture there. However, I have lived in Columbus OH for over 4 years and based on what I have seen, this style of rehearsal would produce a lot of resentment.

I was wondering from musicians and non-musicians alike in Chicago,

What kind of leadership do you respond to and how do you react to stressful situations with more criticism than praise? Would this produce excitement and motivation or produce resentment?
Do you respect authority?
Do you appreciate bluntness and putting people's feelings secondary to the result at hand (if the end result is worth the work and the stress?)

Assume you are not being paid wonderfully, but you're not receiving minimum wage. Thank you very much for answering these preliminary questions. I am trying to get a sense of the environment.

Joe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsCS8HtbjzI

[emathias]

Why so early?

You can find very dedicated musicians here in Chicago. There are several good musical schools here, and the CSO and Civic Opera both employ international-calibre musicians and create an environment that fosters other opportunities that make being in Chicago attractive for high-quality classical musicians.

In the classical realm there isn't a shortage of international-level musicians here, and many of them will be willing to work hard to make something noteworthy. That said, meeting that early when many of them will have gigs that keep them up late is, in my opinion (I'm partnered with a professional classical concert pianist and know a number of other professional classical musicians because of that), going to limit your selection. You will get better quality musicians if you're willing to be open to other rehersal times. If you simply say, "We're meeting at 6:30am, take it or leave it" you will miss out on some excellent musicians who are willing to work very hard but simply can't afford to meet that early every single day because it will interfere with their other (musical) work. This is assuming that an orchestra that only rehearses two hours a day isn't going to be paying them very much (which I think is a safe assumption, no?).

[JKHOSU]

Originally Posted by emathias

If you simply say, "We're meeting at 6:30am, take it or leave it" you will miss out on some excellent musicians who are willing to work very hard but simply can't afford to meet that early every single day because it will interfere with their other (musical) work. This is assuming that an orchestra that only rehearses two hours a day isn't going to be paying them very much (which I think is a safe assumption, no?).

I am willing to be flexible with the time; the reason I put it in the morning is because I figure the musicians will have class or work during the day. In the evening I tend to do solo piano work.

I am also considering assembling bigger orchestra only two days out of the week and paring it down to a chamber group on the other days to save on costs.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by JKHOSU

I am willing to be flexible with the time; the reason I put it in the morning is because I figure the musicians will have class or work during the day. In the evening I tend to do solo piano work.

I am also considering assembling bigger orchestra only two days out of the week and paring it down to a chamber group on the other days to save on costs.

Obviously any time will rule out some people, but as long as you're flexible with the group you have, I don't think you'll be dissatisfied with the efforts of people here. Chicagoans generally aren't willing to work themselves sick the way many New Yorkers seem to do, but most Chicagoans are in Chicago to do something worthwhile and willing to put in the time necessary to make it happen. I'm not sure you find as many people with that attitude in places like Columbus (no offense to Columbus).

[ToriaT]

I doubt if your plan will work. Most people do not want to meet that early in the morning and most will be getting ready to go to work or commuting to their jobs. Very few people make an entire living by being a musician. I have friends in orchestras and they practice in the evenings. Also your tone is absolutist and not the way to get cooperation with your fellow musicians. If this is a start up orchestra you will have to rely on the good will of your fellow musicians, its not like you own it or are their boss. And remember even the Chicago Symphony Orchestra has a union and goes on strike.

[JKHOSU]

Originally Posted by ToriaT

I doubt if your plan will work. Most people do not want to meet that early in the morning and most will be getting ready to go to work or commuting to their jobs. Very few people make an entire living by being a musician. I have friends in orchestras and they practice in the evenings. Also your tone is absolutist and not the way to get cooperation with your fellow musicians. If this is a start up orchestra you will have to rely on the good will of your fellow musicians, its not like you own it or are their boss. And remember even the Chicago Symphony Orchestra has a union and goes on strike.

Non-union musicians.

Also, I would rather have 10 musicians that actually want to be there, than 40 of them that would have such a bad attitude that they would go on strike.

Originally Posted by ToriaT

its not like you own it or are their boss.

I smiled when I read that because that statement tells me a lot, right there. If I started it up, if funded it, if I recruited the musicians, if I am paying the musicians, if I am writing music for the musicians and conducting for the musicians, then yes I do own it and yes I am the boss. EDIT: But of course if they are being generous with their time for a disproportionately low paycheck, I would be thanking them quite a bit and showing my appreciation in other ways. I am talking pure *style* here- rehearsal style.

If there's any time to be a jerk, it's at work when results matter. I am friendly and I try to be as modest and humble as possible- but not at work. Not when leadership is required.

I realize most of you will all read that and go, "Wow. I'm glad I don't work for him."

Trust me; it will be fun. The real reward is not in having a good time in rehearsal (though of course that will happen if everyone brings their A-game), but it's in the final product created by hard work.

Think of it like sports.

[JKHOSU]

Originally Posted by emathias

I'm not sure you find as many people with that attitude in places like Columbus (no offense to Columbus).

No it's OK, you can insult Columbus

Originally Posted by emathias

Chicagoans generally aren't willing to work themselves sick the way many New Yorkers seem to do

I wonder what the reason is, hmm....

I mean, think of it this way. You're in the rehearsal room for an hour, no matter what. Whether you are goofing off (not saying Chicagoans do this), or whether you are totally focused on the work, you're going to be stuck there no matter what (those are just two extremes). So why not make the most of it and use hard discipline to drive yourself to get the best possible results within that time frame?

It really is a matter of culture. Look at this high school (and younger children!) orchestra from Russia- they have even better rehearsal discipline and more focused culture than we do in the U.S. and look what they achieved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nFFFrLjpa0

(just a rhetorical question)

[JKHOSU]

Originally Posted by ToriaT

Most people do not want to meet that early in the morning.

I feel like that is a good way to weed people out....

[JKHOSU]

Originally Posted by emathias

Obviously any time will rule out some people, but as long as you're flexible with the group you have, I don't think you'll be dissatisfied with the efforts of people here... most Chicagoans are in Chicago to do something worthwhile and willing to put in the time necessary to make it happen.

OK, that is reassuring to hear. I know Chicago Symphony has a wonderful reputation, and Chicago has a good name in music. I am just wondering about those that are not on that super-professional level yet.

[marothisu]

I think if you're going to be forming a classical ensemble, you won't have any trouble with discipline type of things IMO. There are many, many musicians here - performing or not.