For all the hysteria about rising crime in Chicago, explain this?! (Oak Forest: middle-class, wage)

[Avengerfire]

Any rational adult human being believes there are times when it is ok to kill people. But not all that believe it is ok to kill people are rational human beings.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

What? Shootings own the the ER's at Christ,Stroger,and Mt Sinai. I mean if you are not a gunshot or stabbing victim you will be at any of those 3 a VERY LONG time.

You forgot U of C.

Christ will get you through quickly if you have a minor problem but good insurance. U of C -- I don't recommend it unless you have at least 2-3 bullets in you.

[ofcjim40]

Originally Posted by urza216

Another reason I don't like cops: They think it's okay to kill people.

Ironically enough, a lot of the reasons I don't like cops are the same reasons I don't like gangbangers.

Must not like our military either. Oh well.

And if it comes down to someone trying to kill me, I sure as hell will kill them first.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by ofcjim40

Must not like our military either. Oh well.

I don't like the military one bit. It's funny how you never see army recruitment centers in wealthier areas.

I have old friends and acquaintances in the military, buddy.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by urza216

I don't like the military one bit...I have old friends and acquaintances in the military, buddy.

Then you must not like those "friends and acquaintances."

[urza216]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Then you must not like those "friends and acquaintances."

I never said I didn't like soldiers. Most of them are just doing the best they can to get by. Generals.. I prabobly don't like. You know who I really don't like? Politicians who wage pointless wars and send folks from my hometown to die.

The military is good for earning some good money for a period of time. The air force can be good for traveling the world without having to pay a lot of money to an airline. They'll even pay for your college education. Of course the risk of death is something most spoiled rich kids just aren't willing to take.

I'm not like you, Avenger. I don't see the world in black and white. You are unable to dislike the institution of welfare without disliking the people on welfare too. Don't assume everyone else sees the world the same way.

[ofcjim40]

Ok Urza, then don't expect me to view it in your hippie ideal way either. I view the world in it's many shades of grey. I'm also a realist. Part of that realism is knowing we live in a far from ideal world and I can't exactly put a "flower in my rifle barrel" and hope for the best. We live in a violent world with people intent on destroying and harming civilized society. Whether it's a terrorist or a gangbanger the threat and the danger is real. The Military, Police and citizens that are ready to take action is what keeps society from being over run from those that want to harm the innocent. So Urza, am I to believe by your statements you would not defend yourself or others you love? So someone is ready to kill you, will you ask them kindly to stop then allow them to make the decision if they wish to slaughter you or not?

Below is the more complete account of the above incident. Sorry but I'm not going to allow anyone to smash me with a brick. This poor woman came home from grocery shopping and sees her home smashed to hell. As this 68 year old woman is attempting to clean up the mess, they return threatening her and the offender is holding a brick. First off you should NEVER have to retreat on your own property. Secondly I'm doubtful an older woman can move fast. Now I don't know the size of the offender, but I have seen kids that age be nearly 6 foot and over 180 lbs. By age, stature and strength alone I'm sure he and his friend could overpower this woman. Now you add a brick into the equation, this rises to deadly force. So Urza, you going to allow anyone to smash you in the face with a brick. So this elderly woman rightfully fearing for her life defends herself to protect her life on her OWN property! Sorry, I fail to see the problem in this. You can live your life how you want and be a victim if you so desire, but I'll be damned if I stand by and let an offender determine my fate. I'll determine that for him, and allow him to realize the grave mistake he just made.

Mod Cut.

Urza, not sure what your definition of "wealthier" area is, but I consider Deerfield, Naperville, Evanstan, Downers Grove, north side of Chicago, Libertyville, Schaumburg and Orland Park pretty OK in my book. These areas and I'm sure many others have Military Recruiting centers. Not sure if you are trying to say only the Military recruits the "lower class", but that's just off base and straight up wrong.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by ofcjim40

Ok Urza, then don't expect me to view it in your hippie ideal way either. I view the world in it's many shades of grey. I'm also a realist. Part of that realism is knowing we live in a far from ideal world and I can't exactly put a "flower in my rifle barrel" and hope for the best. We live in a violent world with people intent on destroying and harming civilized society. Whether it's a terrorist or a gangbanger the threat and the danger is real. The Military, Police and citizens that are ready to take action is what keeps society from being over run from those that want to harm the innocent. So Urza, am I to believe by your statements you would not defend yourself or others you love? So someone is ready to kill you, will you ask them kindly to stop then allow them to make the decision if they wish to slaughter you or not?

Below is the more complete account of the above incident. Sorry but I'm not going to allow anyone to smash me with a brick. This poor woman came home from grocery shopping and sees her home smashed to hell. As this 68 year old woman is attempting to clean up the mess, they return threatening her and the offender is holding a brick. First off you should NEVER have to retreat on your own property. Secondly I'm doubtful an older woman can move fast. Now I don't know the size of the offender, but I have seen kids that age be nearly 6 foot and over 180 lbs. By age, stature and strength alone I'm sure he and his friend could overpower this woman. Now you add a brick into the equation, this rises to deadly force. So Urza, you going to allow anyone to smash you in the face with a brick. So this elderly woman rightfully fearing for her life defends herself to protect her life on her OWN property! Sorry, I fail to see the problem in this. You can live your life how you want and be a victim if you so desire, but I'll be damned if I stand by and let an offender determine my fate. I'll determine that for him, and allow him to realize the grave mistake he just made.

Cops: Woman shot boy after broken windows, brick attack - Chicago Breaking News (http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/09/12-year-old-boy-shot-in-arm-in-south-shore.html - broken link)

Let's have a rich kid fight a war for once. Maybe even the sons and daughters of the politicians who wage them?

I fully agree with the bolded part of your post.

However, the Roman Empire didn't fall because terrorists or gangbangers. It wasn't terrorists or gangbangers who policed the streets of Nazi Germany and gassed the Jews either.

[ofcjim40]

I know plenty of "well off" people who are proudly serving in the military. The last I checked there is no draft so rich and poor have their own free will to enlist. The heroes in the Military are not defined by their economic class but by the wealth of their character.

Seriously, what are you trying to correlate with the atrocities of WWII? A sick evil tyrant and his twisted followers were intent on dominating humanity. Now who saved us from this... Yes the brave men and women of the military! What a crazy concept huh? So Urza would you rather be speaking German right now? You have any gratitude for the soldiers that selfishly gave their lives so that you can enjoy the freedoms you have. Because of them you can produce books of poetry, make barely listenable music on YouTube and say you have no use for them on message boards such us this. Are you that desensitized to not realize how much some people suffered in their own lives basically to ensure you can live one of little discomfort. You appear to be ungrateful and spoiled.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by ofcjim40

I know plenty of "well off" people who are proudly serving in the military. The last I checked there is no draft so rich and poor have their own free will to enlist. The heroes in the Military are not defined by their economic class but by the wealth of their character.

Seriously, what are you trying to correlate with the atrocities of WWII? A sick evil tyrant and his twisted followers were intent on dominating humanity. Now who saved us from this... Yes the brave men and women of the military! What a crazy concept huh? So Urza would you rather be speaking German right now? You have any gratitude for the soldiers that selfishly gave their lives so that you can enjoy the freedoms you have. Because of them you can produce books of poetry, make barely listenable music on YouTube and say you have no use for them on message boards such us this. Are you that desensitized to not realize how much some people suffered in their own lives basically to ensure you can live one of little discomfort. You appear to be ungrateful and spoiled.

Being "offended: The defense of someone who has no argument.

Throughout history, the most terrible acts have been committed by governments not gangbangers and terrorists. Civilizations don't crumble because crime gets out of hand. They crumble because we lose the very principles our society was founded on. The Roman Empire became a warlike country and other nations didn't like that.

I cherish the rights you speak of. And I refuse to give them up in the name of security. Give liberty or give me death! Terrorists shmerist. Gangbanger smang banger. I REFUSE to give in to fear and give up my liberty!

This country wasn't founded by cop lovers. It was founded by guerilla mutineers.