Looking for the Impossible! (Is Berwyn the answer?)

[Peer79]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The comparative data about the average performance of kids on the weak state mandated tests is not really detailed enough to help parents determine how good a fit the schools might be for their kids. There is a little more data available for schools inside CPS that attempt to measure how responsive the schools administration is, how involved other parents are and how skilled the teachers are in delivering instruction -- all trends highly correlated with schools moving in the right direction. My sense is that some of those categories are not broadly positive in the districts (elementary & high school) serving Brookfield and given the size (especially of the high school) I would not hold out much hope of that trend reversing.

I would also caution that Fenwick is not just a private school, it one run by a Catholic religous order and a pretty "hard core" one at that. Admission is selective, kids are turned down if they don't meet admissions standards. Socially there is a VERY strong network of men (the school was formerly male only) that is highly competitive and very sports focused. The atmosphere is very different than that of a public high school...

In contrast when one chooses a town like Brookfield the level of involvement that one has a community member in actively participating in the direction of the relatively small public high school shared with Riverside is dramatically different -- any tax increases are likely to be hotly debated by citizens, as are changes in academic or atheltic offerings. It is a much different kind of particitipative democraticly run organization.

I would argue that given the differnces in size and demographics the ability to be a proactive force is superior in Riverside-Brookfield than any other near-west-Cook suburb. I would not discount this as merely a trade-off for lower taxes in towns with less well run schools but an very important differnce that says a lot about the value residents place on education and the likely future direction of both schools and housing values...

I don't mean to scare anyone into thinking that Berwyn is on the verge of collapse (I certainly don't think that is the case) merely to emphasize that in the whole Chicago region there are VERY long standing ties between home prices and school quality that any shopper ought not dismiss. I also think it is important that anyone who assumes "well private schools are always an option" needs to understand that in pretty much the whole region the only private high schools available are religous and tend to be pretty "old school" in all the stereotypical ways.

I'm a Fenwick grad. I think a lot of the reputation that people like to ascribe to Fenwick is exaggerated. Not quite as hard core or academically rigorous as they like to let off. You're basically paying for a brand name. The Fenwick brass really try to instill a sense of pride and admiration for the Fenwick 'heritage' into the student body, but that falls in deaf ears much of the time. I agree the admissions process is selective, but Corey Maggette got in, and no one thought it was due to academic expolits. Those hard core types are willing to bend the rules if they want to improve the basketball program.

If a parent is financially capable, I would rather move into a highly ranked suburban school district than shell out 12.5K a year for Fenwick. That type of school is where a lot of the higher income residents of towns like Elmwood Park, Berwyn, even Oak Park send their kids. Then again, a lot of the Fenwick student body comes from Hinsdale which I understand encompasses a highly ranked suburban school and is one your 'prized' Dupage county locales. So, some people do go there for the Fenwick tradition.

My wife taught in the Morton district, and I don't think it will show much improvement anytime soon. Too much of a stagnant, good ole boy, sort of attitude.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by IAmEverywhere

Even if a student can get admitted to IMSA, it's not for everyone. The key thing to understand about IMSA is that you're giving up three years of the typical high school experience and the socialization it provides. It's important for gifted students to learn to relate to a wide range of people, including people with a range of abilities. IMSA students go home for academic breaks and tend to go home for the weekend. In my opinion, this isn't enough. If you're seriously considering IMSA, I'd thoroughly investigate and make sure it's really what both you and your daughter want. Be aware that alumni may not be aware of, or may not even care about, the effects of having missed out on the socialization one gets from traditional high schools. I'm also not convinced that the academics at IMSA are actually better than those at top Chicagoland high schools.

What a bunch of hooey. No one worries bout "socialization" when the rich send their kids to boarding schools like Philips Andover or Exeter and are surrounded only by other rich kids.

Are you saying the IMSA kids are missing out being pushed around by football players and ignored by cheerleaders? Crap, crap, crap.

[oldhousegirl]

I do believe this is one of the best threads in regards to extremely thoughtful responses and civilized discourse. The OP and anyone else who reads is getting a closer look at how and why communities fail or succeed. Most people want to get a "good deal" on a house, but as always there is so much more to consider.

I've always been a big Flossmoor booster. I loved living there. It takes a majority of like minded, yet flexible people to keep a community humming along.

[IAmEverywhere]

@JacksonPanther: I never suggested Andover, Exeter or similar elite private boarding schools. Nor did anyone else in this thread before you did. Moreover, they are probably irrelevant to the OP, as they are probably unaffordable to them based on what we know about their financial situation.

Being "pushed around by football players" is not most people's experience in high school. I was not pushed around by any member of the football team in high school, nor did I see it happen to anyone else in high school. Wheaton North would not have tolerated that nonsense.

"...ignored by cheerleaders" is a preposterous complaint. Typically, only a small fraction of students are on the cheerleading squad. Even if they did all ignore you, that leaves plenty of other people to date or socialize with. It is normal for people of either gender to be as selective as they can get away with. This, by itself, does not indicate a bad social environment.

@oldhousegirl: I also have a lot of respect for the Homewood-Flossmoor area, but didn't bother to mention it because it already had been here.

In general, the schools I'm most impressed with are the ones that have very good test scores despite having a demographic mix.

[chet everett]

My experience as student, teacher , parent and neighbor is that the majority of athletes at schools that are well run are also among the better students and less likely to engage in bad behavior than the involved students.

I also agree that the small minority of students that are part of the cheerleading squad are too busy with their own routines to have much interaction with the wider student population. It is not that they are ignoring anyone so much as that they are busy memorizing where and when to shout / jump / dance.

Schools that are well run have pretty solid guidelines on acceptable student behavior and a staff that can keep students toe-ing the line.

When comes to schools with a "demographic mix" there are only a handful of such schools where the student body is not faced with selective admission criteria. If by demographic mix you really mean "race" that does NOT track as clearly as simply plotting by % Low Income as a predictor of school performance -- IIRC: Schools Comparison

Originally Posted by IAmEverywhere

@JacksonPanther: I never suggested Andover, Exeter or similar elite private boarding schools. Nor did anyone else in this thread before you did. Moreover, they are probably irrelevant to the OP, as they are probably unaffordable to them based on what we know about their financial situation.

Being "pushed around by football players" is not most people's experience in high school. I was not pushed around by any member of the football team in high school, nor did I see it happen to anyone else in high school. Wheaton North would not have tolerated that nonsense.

"...ignored by cheerleaders" is a preposterous complaint. Typically, only a small fraction of students are on the cheerleading squad. Even if they did all ignore you, that leaves plenty of other people to date or socialize with. It is normal for people of either gender to be as selective as they can get away with. This, by itself, does not indicate a bad social environment.

@oldhousegirl: I also have a lot of respect for the Homewood-Flossmoor area, but didn't bother to mention it because it already had been here.

In general, the schools I'm most impressed with are the ones that have very good test scores despite having a demographic mix.

[IAmEverywhere]

@Chet: By "demographic mix", I meant socioeconomic diversity, and should have been more specific.

You're right that there aren't many such schools in Chicagoland.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Peer79

My wife taught in the Morton district, and I don't think it will show much improvement anytime soon. Too much of a stagnant, good ole boy, sort of attitude.

It's attitudes like this that are more of a problem than the actual "good ole boys" (not what I call them but I'll go with it). People need to go out and start getting involved to change this.

[Hatchetman]

There is a well regarded elementary charter school in north Berwyn. I know some folks who live in Oak Park that actually send their kids there. Might want to check it out.

[chet everett]

If your friends live in Oak Park does this charter school in Berwyn allow them access on a tuition basis? Is that cost effective?

What is the name of this well regarded elementary charter school?

Originally Posted by Hatchetman

There is a well regarded elementary charter school in north Berwyn. I know some folks who live in Oak Park that actually send their kids there. Might want to check it out.

[BRU67]

There are no charter schools in Berwyn. He may be referring to the Children's School, which is a private school. There is also a Montessori school. Both are on the north side.