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Ford heights and east chicago heights for example, sits along the indiana border.
No, they don't. Sauk Village and Lynwood sit along the Indiana border not Ford Heights and East Heights. Both of these towns are east of Ford Heights and border Ford Heights. Both Sauk Village and Lynwood ALSO border Dyer, Indiana when you go further east. Nowhere does Ford Heights touch Indiana.
However, your point still stands because the Village isn't a very nice place either.
This was over a year ago but I still remember when that Sauk Village cop got shot. He was being a pig and pulling some random motorist over and instead of consenting to a pointless car search, the guy whipped out a gun and shot him. This is why today in Sauk Village, cops don't pull anyone over without calling backup first.
The violence didn't solve anything. The Sauk Village PD are still always pulling people over on Sauk Trail near the 394 expressway while open air drug dealing is rampant on several neighborhood blocks. Harassing innocent people is apparently more important than going after drug dealers.
For anyone who bothers to take a gander at the actual income and poverty statistics and not just making there assumption based on what they see as far as race. The far southern suburbs has four times as many middle class areas as it has lower income areas. And with the exception of solidly middle class, closer in south holland. What some people hate to admit is most of the worst south suburbs are just as close to, if not even closer to middle class Northwest indiana towns and nearby southwest suburbs as they are to most of the nicer far southern suburbs. Which maybe plays into the distorted perception mostly coming from people who live in towns in NWI as they seem to be a lot closer and more familiar with the problem areas. Ford heights and east chicago heights for example, sits along the indiana border. In close proximity to several middle class NWI towns such as dyer. Calumet city borders hammond. Not that calumet city is a completely low income area. Infact hammond residents have a much lower median income and a higher murder rate, and is located right next to munster. Harvey, phoenix, robbins and riverdale are just as close to both NWI towns such as munster and to middle class southwest suburbs such as oak forest, tinley park, and crestwood. As they are to middle class and affluent far southern suburbs such as is to flossmoor, olympia fields, homewood, or matteson.
And as for high crime rates, for chicagoland as a whole the crime in the far southern suburbs is not higher. West suburban Hinsdale has about the same crime rate as flossmoor. Oak brook has about the same crime rate as olympia fields. The crime rate in oak park is comparable to homewood. And the crime rate in affluent west suburban river forest is double the crime rate in flossmoor.
Do you really want to start this again??? For the record the Illinois contingent (with the exception of one comment from an IN realtor who suggested the OP check out IN) derailed this thread completely
For anyone who bothers to take a gander at the actual income and poverty statistics and not just making there assumption based on what they see as far as race. The far southern suburbs has four times as many middle class areas as it has lower income areas. And with the exception of solidly middle class, closer in south holland. What some people hate to admit is most of the worst south suburbs are just as close to, if not even closer to middle class Northwest indiana towns and nearby southwest suburbs as they are to most of the nicer far southern suburbs. Which maybe plays into the distorted perception mostly coming from people who live in towns in NWI as they seem to be a lot closer and more familiar with the problem areas. Ford heights and east chicago heights for example, sits along the indiana border. In close proximity to several middle class NWI towns such as dyer. Calumet city borders hammond. Not that calumet city is a completely low income area. Infact hammond residents have a much lower median income and a higher murder rate, and is located right next to munster. Harvey, phoenix, robbins and riverdale are just as close to both NWI towns such as munster and to middle class southwest suburbs such as oak forest, tinley park, and crestwood. As they are to middle class and affluent far southern suburbs such as is to flossmoor, olympia fields, homewood, or matteson.
And as for high crime rates, for chicagoland as a whole the crime in the far southern suburbs is not higher. West suburban Hinsdale has about the same crime rate as flossmoor. Oak brook has about the same crime rate as olympia fields. The crime rate in oak park is comparable to homewood. And the crime rate in affluent west suburban river forest is double the crime rate in flossmoor.
The difference in murder rate (as of 2009) between Cal City and Hammond is ONE point...That is not enough for anybody to pick Cal City over Hammond or to state that Hammond is much more dangerous than Cal City...look at the overall crime stats and you can clearly see that Cal City is higher...and yes, Munster is right next to Hammond yet the proximity has little effect because the areas where most of the crime in Hammond is is on the northern edge...The difference is median income between Cal City and Hammond is about a "whopping" $5,000...another insignificant figure that you pointed out....I don't think anybody can hide the fact that the nicest middle to upper middle class areas in NWI are also close to areas such as sauk village and Lansing that are not so hot. I sure have never hid it. In fact, I have said many times that the proximity to those towns have little negative affect as the towns in NWI (and even Lansing and Lynwood) are safe. It sure doesn't affect school performance in Munster or Dyer. So you can "reveal those hidden truths" all you want because it is no secret. Even take CCH for example. The schools are terrible but it has no effect on Tinley Park does it? Proximity to CCH does not keep people away from Tinley Park (and the murder rate in 2009 for CCH was twice as much as Hammond or Cal City...but CCH still has more going for it in my opinion)
The difference in murder rate (as of 2009) between Cal City and Hammond is ONE point...That is not enough for anybody to pick Cal City over Hammond or to state that Hammond is much more dangerous than Cal City...look at the overall crime stats and you can clearly see that Cal City is higher...and yes, Munster is right next to Hammond yet the proximity has little effect because the areas where most of the crime in Hammond is is on the northern edge...The difference is median income between Cal City and Hammond is about a "whopping" $5,000...another insignificant figure that you pointed out....I don't think anybody can hide the fact that the nicest middle to upper middle class areas in NWI are also close to areas such as sauk village and Lansing that are not so hot. I sure have never hid it. In fact, I have said many times that the proximity to those towns have little negative affect as the towns in NWI (and even Lansing and Lynwood) are safe. It sure doesn't affect school performance in Munster or Dyer. So you can "reveal those hidden truths" all you want because it is no secret. Even take CCH for example. The schools are terrible but it has no effect on Tinley Park does it? Proximity to CCH does not keep people away from Tinley Park (and the murder rate in 2009 for CCH was twice as much as Hammond or Cal City...but CCH still has more going for it in my opinion)
I was not comparing cal city to hammond, or saying which area is better. Both have fairly high poverty rates although hammonds is much higher. And both of these areas are right next to each other on opposite sides of the indiana border in the vicinity of NWI towns such as munster. Nowhere near where I live in the far southern suburbs where I am more familiar with. As I said, people who live in towns in NWI seem to be more familiar with the problem south suburban areas that have the well known high crime and high poverty rate monikers. As many of the middle class NWI towns seem to be located closer to these suburbs to give you guys a more well informed opinion.
As for country club hills, I happen to consider country club hills to be a decent middle income, low poverty suburb. Random violent crime happens everywhere. For example, there was 5 murders in the same day in neighboring tinley park at the lane bryant back in 2008. I certainly wouldn't say a couple of incidents gives country club hills a high crime moniker or that country club hills has had enough murders to even have a murder rate. I certainly would not mention country club hills in the same sentence as hammond in regards to the high rate of poverty, the much smaller homes, and the abundance of section 8 housing that hammond has. Country club hills is a much better area with much nicer homes, surrounded by mostly even better middle income suburbs.
Last edited by allen2323; 04-08-2011 at 01:12 PM..
As for country club hills, I happen to consider country club hills to be a decent middle income, low poverty suburb. Random violent crime happens everywhere. For example, there was 5 murders in the same day in neighboring tinley park at the lane bryant back in 2008. I certainly wouldn't say a couple of incidents gives country club hills a high crime moniker or that country club hills has had enough murders to even have a murder rate. I certainly would not mention country club hills in the same sentence as hammond in regards to the high rate of poverty, the much smaller homes, and the abundance of section 8 housing that hammond has. Country club hills is a much better area with much nicer homes, surrounded by mostly even better middle income suburbs.
CC Hills has SOME issues with poverty but I wouldn't say the poverty in CC Hills is comparable to Hammond's poverty. I wouldn't say crime in CC Hills is too bad either. Incidents are just that.. Incidents. But at the same time, I don't think Tinley Park should have been rated number one place to raise a family in the country. That's nuts. Incidents don't ever happen once in the REALLY nice places.. Not CC Hills and not Tinley.
My point is crime and poverty is not coming close to impeding on the daily quality of life of residents in country club hills. There is plenty of retail in and near CCH, nice homes, and mostly middle income residents. Not saying there isn't any crime or some degree of residents living at or below poverty on the fringes of some of country club hills mostly nice neighborhoods. But country club hills is nowhere near being a high crime and high poverty area. No rational individual would drive through country club hills and consider CCH to be anything but a middle income suburb. Albeit a predominantly black one.
No, they don't. Sauk Village and Lynwood sit along the Indiana border not Ford Heights and East Heights. Both of these towns are east of Ford Heights and border Ford Heights. Both Sauk Village and Lynwood ALSO border Dyer, Indiana when you go further east. Nowhere does Ford Heights touch Indiana.
However, your point still stands because the Village isn't a very nice place either.
This was over a year ago but I still remember when that Sauk Village cop got shot. He was being a pig and pulling some random motorist over and instead of consenting to a pointless car search, the guy whipped out a gun and shot him. This is why today in Sauk Village, cops don't pull anyone over without calling backup first.
The violence didn't solve anything. The Sauk Village PD are still always pulling people over on Sauk Trail near the 394 expressway while open air drug dealing is rampant on several neighborhood blocks. Harassing innocent people is apparently more important than going after drug dealers.
Granted focusing on drug dealing is preferable to pulling motorists over. However, and excuse me if this is naive, if a motorist is not doing anything wrong, then getting pulled over should be nothing more than an inconvenience on one's time. And if one has nothing to hide, then letting police look through one's car, as long as they don't tear it apart, should be no big deal. Hopefully they are pulling over the suspected drug dealer, even if it is on a phantom reason, to see if s/he is carrying.
I hope the person who shot the officer is spending eternity in jail
Granted focusing on drug dealing is preferable to pulling motorists over. However, and excuse me if this is naive, if a motorist is not doing anything wrong, then getting pulled over should be nothing more than an inconvenience on one's time. And if one has nothing to hide, then letting police look through one's car, as long as they don't tear it apart, should be no big deal. Hopefully they are pulling over the suspected drug dealer, even if it is on a phantom reason, to see if s/he is carrying.
I hope the person who shot the officer is spending eternity in jail
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with trying to catch buyers than sellers. This is why the police are most active with stopping people are pulling up to the expressway. This is far from a hot spot for drug dealing. It's a "hot spot" for people who don't live in the Village (or a neighboring town) and are driving home. The idea appears to be (but I don't know for sure) to catch buyers who come into the Village and get on the expressway to head home.
I will fully admit that someone who doesn't live in Sauk Village, Steger, Ford Heights or South Chicago Heights prabobly doesn't have much business in Sauk Village unless they are passing through on Sauk Trail, know someone who lives there or are up to something illegal. A few good friends of mine live in Sauk Village. I met them a through another friend years back. It says a lot when the police behave like it's "suspicious" for an out of towner to be in the town, lol.
hey deechee- I agree with you. The south burbs get slammed. You never hear good things about the south burbs its kind of sad . but these places have some hidden gems. even Steger- I was driving thru that area north of steger and the homes easily were nicer than some homes in Frankfort that are put on a pedestal and the lots were 5 times larger and wooded.
Yep, but you cannot convince people...*sigh*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessel
The problem with south burbs like Calumet City, Dolton, Riverdale and the like is the QUALITY of the recent residents of the last decade, not the COLOR. And when it comes to the few upscale areas like Flossmoor and Homewood, they're not cesspools. But will those towns mirror the decline of the surrounding areas? One would have to have their head buried in the sand to not think that there may be issues in the years ahead.
Yes, but what do you accomplish by telling decent people to flee? That only makes the problem worse...
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