Schools in the western suburbs (Aurora, Naperville: new house, transfer, high schools)

[My Kind Of Town]

Oh and our 3-bedroom house in Hinsdale did not cost us $370k more than a comparable home in wheaton because if it did that means we basically would have received a home for free in Wheaton

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town

It's not just Metra times. I am 1-2 minutes from I-294 depending on how long I sit at the stop sign at Ogden and County Line Road, 5 minutes from I-55, I-290, and I-88, just over 10 miles from Midway, and less than 20 miles from both O'Hare and the loop. That's what I mean when I say location trumps everything else in my opinion. We have considerable flexibility on where we can work and still maintain a reasonable commute. That's huge to us. Only suburbs that are more centrally located would be Oak Brook and Elmhurst, which we looked at for awhile and would still prefer over further west suburbs like Wheaton and Glen Ellyn.

The relative advantage that Wheaton (or Glen Ellyn) enjoys with access to employers in the greater I-88 corridor and the NW surburbs via 355 is probably a wash against the options of towns further east. Of course folks that like the often shockingly easy access to Chicago off peak will probably tout that as a plus for the towns on the east edge of DuPage but offsetting that are the nice options for the greater Fox Valley from Wheaton.

If asked, I could make an argument for Naperville along some of the same lines -- its growth has spurred growth in the greater SW corridor and thus has its own "ecosystem". Part of the ecosystem surely included the expansion of places like Oswego, but much of that expansion happened during the peak of the real estate bubble and as such it has largely NOT recovered so that is why I caution the OP to consider more developed areas. Of course if their move is long term perhaps the larger homes and such outweigh any concerns of school quality or potential resale.

Different strokes...

[My Kind Of Town]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The relative advantage that Wheaton (or Glen Ellyn) enjoys with access to employers in the greater I-88 corridor and the NW surburbs via 355 is probably a wash against the options of towns further east. Of course folks that like the often shockingly easy access to Chicago off peak will probably tout that as a plus for the towns on the east edge of DuPage but offsetting that are the nice options for the greater Fox Valley from Wheaton.

If asked, I could make an argument for Naperville along some of the same lines -- its growth has spurred growth in the greater SW corridor and thus has its own "ecosystem". Part of the ecosystem surely included the expansion of places like Oswego, but much of that expansion happened during the peak of the real estate bubble and as such it has largely NOT recovered so that is why I caution the OP to consider more developed areas. Of course if their move is long term perhaps the larger homes and such outweigh any concerns of school quality or potential resale.

Different strokes...

I was speaking to my specific situation. I'm pulling this number out of the air but I would say that the commute time is shorter from Hinsdale compared to Wheaton to ~90% of engineering firms since most are either located in Chicago or along I-294 and I-90. Same holds true for my wife since most employers within her industry are located within Chicago.

The comment that sparked this was from Lookout Kid in regards to Hinsdale buyers paying a huge premium for a slight increase in school performance compared to other western suburbs. Clearly it's more than just the schools driving the price. If Wheaton has so much to offer to so many different types of people, as Hollingsworth often suggests, then why aren't prices higher there?

[chet everett]

My gut says that price spreads will narrow in many parts of Wheaton, but the biggest reasons that I see for the relative "discount" are a (in no particular order)

• schools are not as uniformly well regarded
• much larger land area -- folks closer to Butterfield or St. Charles Rd have dramatically different access to downtown core
• larger numbers of rentals, even though many are very quiet (associated with adult divinity students at Wheaton College...) it is still a kind of land use that is much rarer in pricier communities
• false though they largely are, there is still a perception of among buyers that it is a more conservative / faith oriented community than they would prefer
• both linear distance from Loop and actual travel time to / from Chicago and suburbs due north of the city is greater

I know that h'worth does a good job slicing and dicing the data about schools BUT almost no buyers go through such trouble. Even if they do. the generally accepted standards of folks in the college admissions community rely quite heavily on the traditional "whole school" measures and that, by itself, counts for a big part of the premium attached to the most highly rated schools.

I have laid out before the rationale for why smaller towns / smaller units of government result in a people feeling they are more directly responsible for things and how this usually translates into a positive impact on the things that drive valuations -- tighter zoning controls, reduced growth in governmental payroll, modest / nonexistent issues with crime and other more subtile benefits (like knowing a greater percentage of your extended neighbors...). There are exceptions, like the relative value differences between very small Lisle and very large adjacent Naperville, but generally the smaller town gets a boost in value..

Rentals, as laid out, change the motivations of property owners and even residents to vote for the kinds of things that have nice benefits for a town. Wheaton is certainly not the kind of town that is "dominated" by rentals, and as I already said a decent number of the rentals are EXTREMELY quiet places, often rented out to folks associated with Wheaton College. Honestly, trying to track down ANYTHING to rent in some affluent towns is flat out impossible...

When I drive around Elmhurst or Hinsdale or Naperville I can count just as much well attended normal churches as Wheaton has BUT the silly classification of some ministry offices / international outreach type facilities as "churches" almost certainly led to the incorrect moniker as "most churches per capita" in somee government survey that then got popularized via Trivial Pursuit. I think most data shows churches are a positive for most communities but the preconceived notations of some buyers, shaped by Ned Flanders type cartoon stereotypes, probably is a factor..

Lastly even though I already laid out why shifts in mobility / employment trends may lessen the effect, there is still a strong association between proximity and valuation. The thing that is hardest to factor in about this is just how much the preferences of literally a single top executive can be in these situations. There are pretty solid studies that show despite all the efforts of states / cities to lure firms into an area with tax incentives and all kinds of data about the relative quality of the workforce or ease of transportation when one guy decides he'd like to revitalize downtown Detroit and he has the cash to work on it OR one guy is just sick and tired of being beat-up as an anti-union wrecker of careers the PERSONAL efforts outweigh the governmental push. The implications for Wheaton are sort of mixed -- the vacancies down south of Danada along Warrenville Rd almost certainly resulted in some folks needing to relocate out of these newer, larger subdivisions and that made for some great deals for folks that wanted that kind of home. Longer term the values of these "tracts" of even semi-custom homes have NOT fared as well as the more charming homes in the historic sections of town BUT the relative paucity of such homes makes it hard to say that these are really going to drive enough of the kind of shoppers that are needed to make this a "premium". When folks think "suburbs with charming mansions from earlier era" towns like Oak Park probably have an outsized mindshare compared to even Hinsdale, LaGrange, Riverside or even the North Shore...

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town

The comment that sparked this was from Lookout Kid in regards to Hinsdale buyers paying a huge premium for a slight increase in school performance compared to other western suburbs. Clearly it's more than just the schools driving the price. If Wheaton has so much to offer to so many different types of people, as Hollingsworth often suggests, then why aren't prices higher there?

I actually agree with you. A more direct comparison would be Western Springs or La Grange instead of Wheaton, which is ten miles away from Hinsdale.

Proximity to Chicago is a funny thing. In some situations, it adds to home value. In others it is a detriment, as many inner-ring suburbs are not faring well. Hinsdale is sort of the center of a nice belt or pocket of affluence, including the BNSF towns and Oak Brook.

Chet makes good points above, and has a nuanced view of locations.

[holl1ngsworth]

Originally Posted by chet everett

My gut says that price spreads will narrow in many parts of Wheaton, but the biggest reasons that I see for the relative "discount" are a (in no particular order)

• schools are not as uniformly well regarded
• much larger land area -- folks closer to Butterfield or St. Charles Rd have dramatically different access to downtown core
• larger numbers of rentals, even though many are very quiet (associated with adult divinity students at Wheaton College...) it is still a kind of land use that is much rarer in pricier communities
• false though they largely are, there is still a perception of among buyers that it is a more conservative / faith oriented community than they would prefer
• both linear distance from Loop and actual travel time to / from Chicago and suburbs due north of the city is greater

I know that h'worth does a good job slicing and dicing the data about schools BUT almost no buyers go through such trouble. Even if they do. the generally accepted standards of folks in the college admissions community rely quite heavily on the traditional "whole school" measures and that, by itself, counts for a big part of the premium attached to the most highly rated schools.

I have laid out before the rationale for why smaller towns / smaller units of government result in a people feeling they are more directly responsible for things and how this usually translates into a positive impact on the things that drive valuations -- tighter zoning controls, reduced growth in governmental payroll, modest / nonexistent issues with crime and other more subtile benefits (like knowing a greater percentage of your extended neighbors...). There are exceptions, like the relative value differences between very small Lisle and very large adjacent Naperville, but generally the smaller town gets a boost in value..

Rentals, as laid out, change the motivations of property owners and even residents to vote for the kinds of things that have nice benefits for a town. Wheaton is certainly not the kind of town that is "dominated" by rentals, and as I already said a decent number of the rentals are EXTREMELY quiet places, often rented out to folks associated with Wheaton College. Honestly, trying to track down ANYTHING to rent in some affluent towns is flat out impossible...

When I drive around Elmhurst or Hinsdale or Naperville I can count just as much well attended normal churches as Wheaton has BUT the silly classification of some ministry offices / international outreach type facilities as "churches" almost certainly led to the incorrect moniker as "most churches per capita" in somee government survey that then got popularized via Trivial Pursuit. I think most data shows churches are a positive for most communities but the preconceived notations of some buyers, shaped by Ned Flanders type cartoon stereotypes, probably is a factor..

Lastly even though I already laid out why shifts in mobility / employment trends may lessen the effect, there is still a strong association between proximity and valuation. The thing that is hardest to factor in about this is just how much the preferences of literally a single top executive can be in these situations. There are pretty solid studies that show despite all the efforts of states / cities to lure firms into an area with tax incentives and all kinds of data about the relative quality of the workforce or ease of transportation when one guy decides he'd like to revitalize downtown Detroit and he has the cash to work on it OR one guy is just sick and tired of being beat-up as an anti-union wrecker of careers the PERSONAL efforts outweigh the governmental push. The implications for Wheaton are sort of mixed -- the vacancies down south of Danada along Warrenville Rd almost certainly resulted in some folks needing to relocate out of these newer, larger subdivisions and that made for some great deals for folks that wanted that kind of home. Longer term the values of these "tracts" of even semi-custom homes have NOT fared as well as the more charming homes in the historic sections of town BUT the relative paucity of such homes makes it hard to say that these are really going to drive enough of the kind of shoppers that are needed to make this a "premium". When folks think "suburbs with charming mansions from earlier era" towns like Oak Park probably have an outsized mindshare compared to even Hinsdale, LaGrange, Riverside or even the North Shore...

I largely agree with this even-handed assessment. Though the price gap may shrink in the future, Wheaton will never be Hinsdale. Much of what I said was hyperbole to draw attention to the fact that Wheaton offers much of the same lifestyle as Hinsdale but at a much lower price. Great schools, rapid transit, endless amenities, and a charming historic core. To a couple of your points I will say:

• Schools are not as uniformly well regarded.
  
  Yes and no. Wheaton has several elementary schools that perform on par with those in Hinsdale and other highly desirable districts, even using "whole school" measures. Seven of Wheaton's elementary schools regularly score 80% or higher on ISAT meet/exceed -- an arbitrary percentage that largely divides "highly desirable" from "less desirable." One school regularly scores over 90%, an elite club. La Grange, Elmhurst, Downers Grove, Clarendon Hills etc had no elementary schools over that mark last year. Again, this is using "whole school" measures. Similarly, Wheaton North HS performs on par with Lyons, York and other desirable high schools, using simple "whole school" measures. But yes, the marginal impact of small groups of students sourced from rental communities does contribute to the district-wide difference in "whole school" measures between Wheaton and Hinsdale and this is a significant contributing factor to the price premium Hinsdale receives. It boils down to uniformity.
  
  
• Both linear distance from Loop and actual travel time to / from Chicago and suburbs due north of the city is greater
  
  I agree the extra distance from the Loop means Wheaton will likely never see Hinsdale pricing. But I don't see any "FOR LEASE" or "VACANCY" signs in the commercial space immediately south of Danada. The few of such signs that were present when I moved in 2013 are mostly gone, and if I do see a sign, it's usually "BUILD TO SUIT." Business has really picked up and there is a vibrancy to the larger I-88 corridor, especially from Downers Grove out to Wheaton/Naperville. Residential tear-down activity has also picked up around town. Some of the homes going up wouldn't be out of place in Hinsdale's most exclusive neighborhoods. I've seen several during the past few weeks that appear to be in the 5000-6000+ sqft range. Again, the issue is current uniformity. But each tear-down/new build/extensive addition inches our neighborhoods toward that end.
  
  

[Trodgers]

So both of my boys are 4.0 students and are heavily involved in soccer and would like to continue that. We are looking for a school with great academics and sports. The high school my older one attends now had 2,000 students and I really don't want anything too much larger. We don't need to be close to downtown bc we wont be working there. My husband will be working in the West metro. Does anyone know about Waubonise high school?

[aga412]

Originally Posted by Trodgers

So both of my boys are 4.0 students and are heavily involved in soccer and would like to continue that. We are looking for a school with great academics and sports. The high school my older one attends now had 2,000 students and I really don't want anything too much larger. We don't need to be close to downtown bc we wont be working there. My husband will be working in the West metro. Does anyone know about Waubonise high school?

Waubonsie Valley High School is a very good high school, but it is more on the 2,500-3,000 size for enrollment.

Have you looked at Batavia or Geneva? Those are both just under 2,000. There's also great soccer in the area (Campton, Tri-Cities Soccer, etc.).

[chet everett]

Waubonsie is part of a rather large district. It's reputation has fallen a bit as newer schools have opened in the district, Metea & Nequa are newer...

Soccer in the region has become increasingly competitive, and there is a decided emphasis on the bigger schools. Kids have earned D1 scholarships that used to go.just to Californians.

I cannot help but mention that Hinsdale Central has seen several kids earn scholarships...
Records & History

[aga412]

Metea doesn't score as high as Waubonsie, if I recall correctly, though both are good schools. If the OP doesn't want more than 2000, how would Hinsdale, with nearly 3000, fit?