Is Elmwood Park worth moving to? (Chicago, Naperville: sale, mortgage, house prices)

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by oakparkdude

The problem is not every town can suceed in becoming the location of choice for wealthy, college-educated families with few social pathologies. There simply aren't enough rich people to go around.

And that is the main point that I couldn't agree with you on more.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by svillechris

Sorry, but your analogy between a diversified stock portfolio and a diverse town is not accurate. Quick investing lesson - just because your portfolio is diversified does not mean that you will have a higher ROR over time. A portfolio that would yield the highest RORs over time are those that have stocks with strong earnings and anticipated earnings growth, little debt/baggage/pending litigation, and good management.

The same applies to a town. What will really make a town flourish and experience that same high ROR over time (by way of real estate values) is similar to what creates a strong stock. Strong earnings (in the literal sense of the word - families earning higher incomes), little baggage (crime, drugs, broken homes), and good management (good parenting and parental involvment in the lives of the children, especially in school).

These are the things that makes a town go from good to great. Not the color of one's skin or their ethnicity. Diversity by itself does not at all equal a stronger, more successful, growing town. The types of people that make up that town and the decisions that they make is what matters.

I think you missed my point. Or maybe I wasn't clear enough. Communities such as the one which started this thread which do not attempt to attract residents beyond "working class," "blue collar," or whatever phrase you choose to describe that, will not prosper in the long run. That's largely because of economic trends which are causing the income gap between the highly educated and the less educated to increase. You are correct in that the higher the income level, the higher the property values in the community tend to be, reflecting quality of life differences.

Since most working class communities do not have as many families earning higher incomes, I used the word "diversity" to signify that they will want to attract such families to avoid falling behind. I surely did not mean that simply attracting a hodge podge of different demographics is in and of itself going to create long term positive effects! Nor did I say that this will be easy for formerly working class communities to do. I'm just saying that's the solution. Hope that's a little bit clearer!

[oakparkdude]

I know little about Homewood-Flossmoor. However, I do know that the entire south suburbs are in overall decline due long term job losses in blue collar industries and lack of new high paying jobs. Obviously, Metra allows access to the Loop, but most of the job growth in the CBD is around the west Loop, and the Metra Electic stations in the CBD are on the far eastern end.

This is a pretty significant headwind for even affluent towns to fight against. Elmwood Park, for all its problems, is relatively centrally located between three large job sites: Loop, Oak Brook, and O'Hare.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by oakparkdude

Same. Unless there are a bunch of high-paying jobs within close commuting distance that I'm unaware of.

As we all know, in the past few decades the vast majority of job growth outside of the Loop has occured along I-88, I-90, and I-94 corridors to the west, northwest, and north of the city, while much of the industrial job loss is in the southern half of the metro area. Ultimately, people, housing prices, and good schools follow jobs.

If I was a politician in the south suburbs, I'd do everything possible to encourage companies in encourage these suburban offices to relocate into the Loop.

And even to the Loop it's quite a trek. Metra's schedule shows that it is about 40-45 minutes from Flossmoor to the easterly located Millennium Station on the Electric District line. Ignoring the inconvenience factors surrounding Millennium Station, that's a pretty long commute, and puts it in competition with Naperville and Wheaton. A trip to the western part of the Loop on the Metra is about 20 minutes from Berwyn or Oak Park, and about 30 minutes from Elmwood Park.

And if you get a job outside the Loop, odds are it will be in one of those two other job centers you cited. If that were to happen, your job would be a lot more accessible from EP.

With all due respect to the compelling data cited by Allen, I'd take EP over Homewood or Flossmoor, even with the present income disparities, largely for this reason. I think that EP will experience demographic changes in the coming years, but l believe its location makes for a good chance that those changes will be positive. I don't know if you can say this about the south suburbs outside of the Tinley/Orland area. There, the jobs issue looms larger, particularly when there is relatively affordable housing available much closer.

[allen2323]

Originally Posted by oakparkdude

I know little about Homewood-Flossmoor. However, I do know that the entire south suburbs are in overall decline due long term job losses in blue collar industries and lack of new high paying jobs. Obviously, Metra allows access to the Loop, but most of the job growth in the CBD is around the west Loop, and the Metra Electic stations in the CBD are on the far eastern end.

This is a pretty significant headwind for even affluent towns to fight against. Elmwood Park, for all its problems, is relatively centrally located between three large job sites: Loop, Oak Brook, and O'Hare.

I disagree in part. The working class inner ring southern suburbs have not been fairing too well. The middle class far southern suburbs and nearby middle class sw burbs have seen huge population growth in many cases. Crete, matteson, monee, tinley park, new lenox, and frankfort have all seen 25 percent plus population growth since 2000. There are plenty of randomly located corporations all along I-294 within a relatively short drive of many far southern and sw suburbs. The middle class far southern suburbs such as flossmoor, olympia fields, matteson, homewood, crete, monee, etc and nearby SW burbs such as new lenox, frankfort, tinley park, oak forest, mokena etc. share more in common as far as median household incomes, education levels of residents, location, current home prices, and location of employment. Downtown chicago's centrally located job center hasn't really changed location any, in my opinion atleast. The central downtown area still has the largest density of major corporations. Although both the south loop and west loop have seen significant growth.

[linicx]

THE THREAD IS ABOUT ELMWOOD PARK, ILLINOIS. It is not about Indiana, Maine, Texas or any other state. it is not about rental properties that members own or their rentors, relatives or future relatives. It is not about co-workers or any other community in Illinois. This thread is not about racist, disparaging nor snarky remaks, nor is it about personal attacks.

If you do NOT want to talk about EP, move on.
If you want to talk about Indiana, go to the Indiana Forums.
If you want to talk about the south suburbs, start a new thread.
If you don't like the south suburbs, move on.
If you want to talk about real estate, there is a forum for that, too.

~ Moderator

[CityToBurbs75]

Originally Posted by allen2323

I know that we don't agree much. But I totally agree with you on this one. I would only add that an area attracting higher income residents is a combination of a number of things, and attracting higher income residents is really the end result of that measure. Folks can beat around the bush as much as they want with the other individual points of comparisons. Housing stock, area crime, public transportation, acceptance of diversity, public schools, shopping, neighborhood upkeep, local amenities, etc. What income bracket does an area fall into is the best baseline end comparison. Simply put, individuals and families making the higher incomes always live in the better overall areas. Individuals and families with the lower incomes will always be deligated to the less desirable overall areas. That's just how our capitalistic society works. Black, white, or brown.

My wife and I make about $97K combined, so we don't really consider ourselves "high income" or "affluent". We'd like a single-family house(3BR,2BA), and those are expensive in most parts of the N, NW side of Chicago. We're trying to stay close to friends and favorite places in the city. The only NW neighborhood we saw with many houses in $200K range is Portage Park, but doesn't seem like that's any nicer than Elwood.

Sounds like the consensus is that EP has some nice houses, okay schools, and a growing hispanic population. I think that could be a good balance of what we're looking for. Thanks to the moderator for your comments, I thought I was on the wrong post for a minute.

[Humboldt1]

At 97K household income and assuming no other crazy debts you should be able to afford a decent place in Elmhurst. There are alot of foreclosures and short sales and you should be able to find a decent place for $250-300K (not great but okay, maybe a fixer upper).

Elmwood Park is an okay area and having River Forest and Oak Park to your south is a good thing. For Oak Park or River Forest you would need $200K household income or above for most homes as the homes are not cheap, especially with property taxes. You also have the Des Plaines River to your west. East of Elmwood Park is the Galewood neighborhood which is homes to lots of city employees and is fairly decent.

I would not let the recent influx of hispanics deter you from Elmwood Park. The vast majority of hispanics work and are trying to move up the economic ladder like most other people. Mod Edit

Just watch the schools to look for future trends in the neighborhood.

[linicx]

Let's be clear on this. EP is a mixed neighorhood with mixed incomes. It is not the Garden of Eden, nor is it the dregs of Cook County. If you are near friends and family - you'll figure out the rest as you go along. If you are looking at a specific house it would not hurt to check it on Sunday afternoon when many families are home, and also look at the areas surrounding the house within 3 blocks of it in any direction. It wouldn't hurt to check the neighborhoosds around the schools either. You may find a private school is more practical. - but you might not.

[jtobin79]

Originally Posted by CityToBurbs75

We're looking to buy our first house, and looking outside of the city, mostly because of schools. Our price range is $200,000, and there seems to be a lot of nice single family homes in EP in that range.

I'm reading some threads on this site about how that town is headed for the abyss. We're a couple in our mid-30's who has lived in Logan Square for 10 years, which isn't exactly Mayberry, so we're used to some shadiness. Would we be crazy to move to Elmwood Park? If so, could you recommend nearby areas in that price range?

I lived in (N.W) Oak Park and (South) Elmwood Park my whole life. I loved both. It would be a solid choice to look into EP, also for the money look into Elmhurst. Good Luck