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Really??! Did I just understand you to say that if people are deceived about the real estate that they buy...that it's okay? That it's okay if the system is set up to deceive them? Surely that's not what you're saying.
Perhaps you mean that as long as someone is willing to buy the hype, and no one holds a pistol to their heads, it's fair?
Or, ..."and no one holds a pistol to their head'....and they don't do their due deligence,and there're dumb sh%$%, yep fair game to have their lunch pail taken away and eaten.
I've been in and out of Charlotte over the past ten years. I first visited back in the 70s. I have friends and family there now , and it's on my short list of retirement places. I'm comfortable, though, in my present home (which rose and dropped 50% during the bubble). I've enough financial stability to buy almost any house in Weddington, or Ballantyne or Uptown, but I actually like the quaintness of Mint Hill. So I'm looking around there carefully, and have found the valuations to be a little odd. So I investigated.
I'm an analyst. I've been looking at market trends with private equity firms like Blackstone and JP Morgan. I noticed activities related to banking proprietary trading and acquisitions vis a vis real estate foreclosures. The math is pretty simple, and the analyst conference calls tell an interesting tale: In sum, nationally, there's policy/practice in place to prop up prices to spur building. (You can track it through Case Shiller.) Charlotte turns out to actually be an exception to the national trends in that prices weren't allowed to fall in the first place (even though thousands of bankers got the axe during the crisis) and if some would like to think that it's because of chance...okay. I'd say it's a little deeper than that.
As for tricky real estate agents...I've never met one who was smarter than a sixth grader. (Boy am I gonna get it for that - lots of agents trolling these bulletin boards.)
I agree that people are free to pay what their hearts and pockets desire. For my money though, after the banks, lenders, AND REAL ESTATE AGENTS contributed to the greed fest that nearly brought this nation to it's knees a mere 4 years ago...I'll just keep doing due diligence and keep my coin purse in my tight little fist when I know that such patriots as they would just as soon dine sumptuously on my dime and see me living in a house upside down for the next 30 years.
Really??! Did I just understand you to say that if people are deceived about the real estate that they buy...that it's okay? That it's okay if the system is set up to deceive them? Surely that's not what you're saying.
Perhaps you mean that as long as someone is willing to buy the hype, and no one holds a pistol to their heads, it's fair?
Are you just trying to be argumentative? I said no such thing.
Buying a home takes the same skills that buying a car or a pair of shoes takes. Some folks are looking for the right features at a fair price. Some are simply swayed by the style or color. And some are going to want a brand name that makes them feel special. Some people are impulse buyers or emotional buyers. If a person doesn't do his/her homework . . . whose fault is that? If a seller misrepresents his/her property, that is fraud and they can be sued.
No one is ever holding a pistol to anyone's head when it comes to purchasing anything on this planet. No one is forced to buy a home! No one is forced to take out a mortgage, either.
I don't know what your point is. I don't think it is ever right to do what is wrong! But people making bad decisions is not something that can be prevented. It is called educating one's self before making expensive financial decisions.
No statute can prevent (or cure) dumb.
Last edited by brokensky; 03-08-2013 at 11:30 PM..
I've been in and out of Charlotte over the past ten years. I first visited back in the 70s. I have friends and family there now , and it's on my short list of retirement places. I'm comfortable, though, in my present home (which rose and dropped 50% during the bubble). I've enough financial stability to buy almost any house in Weddington, or Ballantyne or Uptown, but I actually like the quaintness of Mint Hill. So I'm looking around there carefully, and have found the valuations to be a little odd. So I investigated.
I'm an analyst. I've been looking at market trends with private equity firms like Blackstone and JP Morgan. I noticed activities related to banking proprietary trading and acquisitions vis a vis real estate foreclosures. The math is pretty simple, and the analyst conference calls tell an interesting tale: In sum, nationally, there's policy/practice in place to prop up prices to spur building. (You can track it through Case Shiller.) Charlotte turns out to actually be an exception to the national trends in that prices weren't allowed to fall in the first place (even though thousands of bankers got the axe during the crisis) and if some would like to think that it's because of chance...okay. I'd say it's a little deeper than that.
As for tricky real estate agents...I've never met one who was smarter than a sixth grader. (Boy am I gonna get it for that - lots of agents trolling these bulletin boards.)
I agree that people are free to pay what their hearts and pockets desire. For my money though, after the banks, lenders, AND REAL ESTATE AGENTS contributed to the greed fest that nearly brought this nation to it's knees a mere 4 years ago...I'll just keep doing due diligence and keep my coin purse in my tight little fist when I know that such patriots as they would just as soon dine sumptuously on my dime and see me living in a house upside down for the next 30 years.
Cheers
Great Strategy. Whatever you think you are "saving" by waiting (in vain) for prices to fall is gonna go poof when the interest rates go up.
I think the most telling factor is the square footage cost. Take a look.
One of the most alarming things in my search was the lack of clear square footage details in the MLS. Some crazy deal the state made with the realty board? I found a house on Fox Hollow in Mint Hill that's listed as high as 3900 - 4500 sf, but my review of building permits and certificate of occupancy showed that it was only approved at 3750 sf. Go figure. I found several others. Caveat emptor, my friends. That changes the whole price per SF equation.
Also have a look at prior sales from 2006-20011. Interesting that many homes are priced above their prior sale price, though the trend lines aren't sufficiently steep to suggest an anomaly.
I thought I remembered reading that the range was used basically to prevent people from suing because the listed square footage was off by a foot or two, and I think there is a calculation that's supposed to give you a more specific figure. There's even a thread about it on here - https://www.city-data.com/forum/charl...otage-mls.html
But I think it's rare that you'd find a house whose square footage is less than the lower end of the range. It could be a case of the house having square footage that wasn't approved. Still, tax records show it at 4100 heated square feet.
As far as some of the other points you've posted about in this thread, yes it doesn't seem like Charlotte's prices fell as much as other metros, but they also never really rose as much. I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean by prior sales from 2006-2011. Are you talking about homes for sale now that also sold during 2006-2011? Or are you talking about homes that sold from 2006-2011 that sold for higher than their previous sale? If the second, that's not surprising at all as it seems like Charlotte lagged a little behind the bubble. Regardless, many people "price" their home above what they bought it for. Let's see if they actually get that price.
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I agree that people are free to pay what their hearts and pockets desire. For my money though, after the banks, lenders, AND REAL ESTATE AGENTS contributed to the greed fest that nearly brought this nation to it's knees a mere 4 years ago...I'll just keep doing due diligence and keep my coin purse in my tight little fist when I know that such patriots as they would just as soon dine sumptuously on my dime and see me living in a house upside down for the next 30 years.
Cheers
Well said. You are one of the few brave to say it or even have eyes open enough to see it. When the real estate debauchery was taking place in the mid to late 2000s RE agents were right there collecting their commission checks with little to no regard for what was taking place. IMO, the real estate industry didn't catch enough heat for their role in that mess and the one that is building up again. "it's always a good time to buy" IMO, real estate agents, from the buyer's perspective, should be considered little more than order takers. An unfortunate necessity in an industry that pretty much forces 6% out of every sale for itself. (whether they earn it or not)
Stirred it up, have we? Being argumentative is not always a bad thing. It's how points are made. How issues are rolled over and examined. I'm not trying to win anything, by the way...just want to expose a perspective.
Yes, the real estate body does bear some responsibility for the tragedy that has affected millions worldwide. Buyers were greedy too. So were sellers. Plenty of blame to go around, but the lion's share goes to Wall Street and the real estate industry. They knew, "or reasonably should have known" that things were askew. They're the professionals. Buyers and sellers were simply people caught up in the greed psychology without anyone to give them "professional caution" that it didn't make sense.
I'm not poking anyone in the eye here or trying to add salt to anyone's well. Just a cautionary line. I apologize if I hurt any feelings or stepped on toes. It does take courage to go against the larger society and say the things that need to be said.
One of my points is that very few people were yelling "fire!" during the bubble. I'm just yelling "look out!"
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