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What is with the 'we?'..you don't even live in West Virginia anymore! Or at least you claim to not live there. I like to check in a lot on my home state in this forum and post frequently but at the same time I know that I no longer live there (haven't for 8 going on 9 years) so I don't use terminology that makes it sound like I am directly impacted. I am not. You aren't either assuming that you actually don't live in the state.
I will always be a WVian and just because I live 30 miles from the border doesnt mean I should stop caring about corruption and incompotence within WV. Maybe you dont have family, friends, or a love for all people of WV, but I do. So yes WE the people of WV demand an end to this travesty.
It has already been shown they want the same tax breaks. Another poster and myself discussed this earlier. The taxbreaks and subisidies are most likely 100% or more of the cost of the plant. Like I said the state is picking up the bill, and by state I mean the people of WV. The profits wont go to them though. The worst part is the stupid location of this cracker will ensure it will quickly fail and the company will get a nice tax writeoff. So you see Chris a great scam they got going. They dont pay for anything, get some small profit, and a big tax writeoff. Likewise Charleston is happy since they get a short term construction project and a year or two of state funded corporate welfare to support it. The policitians are happy because they get their kickbacks. Everyone wins except WV and its peop;e.
Chris, I love Charleston and want it to develope, but kleptocracy, corruption, and corporate welfare is not progress. This type of thing is the reason your city has greatly declined and continuing to embrace these things will ensure the decline continues. I am fighting for the progress of Charleston. I realize so are you, but you have been manipulated by liars and thieves who have gotten you to betray your city while you think you are helping it. You know I dont support corruption Chris, regardless of where it is even Morgantown, so stop making this a Morgantown vs Charleston issue.
I would be happy a WV company was building a plant in WV if the state government and taxpayer money was not involved. As it is a WV company is NOT spending money in WV, the taxpayers are, and the benefits are going to go to a few people and their offshore back accounts.
The only scam that is going on is the bull crap you want everyone to believe. You and you alone are the only one who believes anything that comes from your posts. You still avoid to post facts by attacking others on here who disagree with your biased opinion. And you are the only one making this a Mtown vs Ctown thing.
Here are the facts Cry. The state of WV was competeing with OH/PA for a Shell owned craker that would have been a great thing. They offered tax breaks to match the ones being offered by PA/OH. Shell decides to build in PA. Aither here in Charleston sees the opportunity to build a craker, and plans to do so. They might have (unknown according to you alone) asked for the same tax break the Shell plan was going to get. Even if they get it, it IS NOT COVERING 100% of the cost! That is the dumbest load of crap I've ever heard from you (and that is saying something)! And even if they get the tax break, where is the corruption? There is none, its what most would call hog-wash!
So listen, stop pretending that the whole world is against NCWV and face reality that a company can and will build wherever they want! Stop the garbage, and just accept that the same kind of commerce happens everywhere even in Morgantown. Don't you think Mylam gets tax breaks? News Flash they do! And so does every major employer in the state of WV (except for the government itself).
The only scam that is going on is the bull crap you want everyone to believe. You and you alone are the only one who believes anything that comes from your posts. You still avoid to post facts by attacking others on here who disagree with your biased opinion. And you are the only one making this a Mtown vs Ctown thing.
Here are the facts Cry. The state of WV was competeing with OH/PA for a Shell owned craker that would have been a great thing. They offered tax breaks to match the ones being offered by PA/OH. Shell decides to build in PA. Aither here in Charleston sees the opportunity to build a craker, and plans to do so. They might have (unknown according to you alone) asked for the same tax break the Shell plan was going to get. Even if they get it, it IS NOT COVERING 100% of the cost! That is the dumbest load of crap I've ever heard from you (and that is saying something)! And even if they get the tax break, where is the corruption? There is none, its what most would call hog-wash!
So listen, stop pretending that the whole world is against NCWV and face reality that a company can and will build wherever they want! Stop the garbage, and just accept that the same kind of commerce happens everywhere even in Morgantown. Don't you think Mylam gets tax breaks? News Flash they do! And so does every major employer in the state of WV (except for the government itself).
Come back to earth, and get over it.
Chris everyone knows this is a scam. Even my friends from Charleston agree and are pissed. I have seen 3-4 or people who are either naive and ignorant not knowing it is a scam, or know it is a scam but still support it for the welfare, and all of them are posters in the Charleston forum of CD. This is not some conspiracy but a widely accepted fact.
Here are the facts Chris. Shell was willing to build a plant in WV, but the state would only give it subisides if it bult one in Charleston. Despite very generous tax breaks and subidies Shell realized building in Charlesotn made NO business sense and would hurt their bottom line. Shell makes money from doing actually business and not robbing taxpayers.
So this dishonest company comes along and wants the SAME subisides for a MUCH SMALLER cracker. The benefits it receives from the state government are greater than the cost. Imagine if you wanted to open a resturant but knew it would fail you wouldnt open. But what if the state paid for all the expenses, and let you keep all the profits before it failed, and then let you write it off once it failed? You would then open it and that is what is going on. In return the politicos get kickbacks and boost fromt he political machine. This is called C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N Chris. It is obvious to everyone in WV, except a few deluded posters in this forum. Only idiot couldnt see the obvious.
Chris, this type of corruption and corporate welfare is NOT helping Charleston. Charleston has done this for over a century and it has only caused poverty and decline, not just in Charleston, but the whole state. I realize the city is currently reliant on this type of corruption to stay afloat, but unlike you I have FAITH in Charleston. I feel if Charleston started to try and actually attract business without corruption, state welfare, and forcing businesses to locate there it would thrive.
I realize you resent the progress NCWV has made, but this corruption occurring in Charleston right now is not related to NCWV or Morgantown. You are the one bringing Morgantown into this conversation, despite the fact that Morgantown is not in anyway relevant to this scam. Once again you make yourself a SHILL for the state government, and resort to trying to change the topic to distract people into regional battles to try and make them forgot about the crime Charleston is committing.
Chris you cannot divide the people of WV. They are aware of the corruption, and the people of Northern and Southern WV are uniting against this corruption, including the people of Morgantown and Charleston. No longer can you blame all your problems on Morgantown, like the Nazis did with the Jews, the people of WV know better. Chris I invite you to stop being a puppet for the politicos in Charleston and to join the people of WV in building a better state. I know deep in your heart you want to, so join the good guys.
This thread has gotten out of hand! I just had to delete what i just posted because this debate has gotten way too far off the main point.
Here is how this is going to work! There will no longer be any personal attacks, I mean that is just uncalled for. If you want to post in support (vs. un-support) for the craker Plant then feel free to do so. If you want to comment on someone elses post, please don't name call or use slander in the process. This is a simple subject.
If you feel that the state has in someway violated its right to deal with state commerce, then post on that. Please don't bring other poster into your comments.
Here is my last post on the matter.
I think the Craker Plant in Institute is a great thing for the whole state. Shell skipped us, and Aither steped up to the plate and felt it could build one. Aither is a local company, so money is staying here in WV. The plant is close enough to the gas indusrty to be an effective business, plus is close enough to major customers here in the Charleston area because of our already built up chemical industry. Also close to rail and barge and major highway network.
I have not seen any evidence in this thread that has proven any state corruption. The only link that was posted was off subject, and didn't reveal any corruption either. If the state is offering a tax break to Either I would not be against it unless it was too much. Too much in my opinion would be if Aither would profit more than usual from the break (that is un-caculated) as opposed to other similar related companies in the state. I would listen to any amount of evidence that would prove corruption, but there has been none.
Any other subject I will not discuss because I've covered everything that is worth talking about.
They passed this law to get a place in CHARLESTON. If it is built anywhere it disappears. If Charleston could move the steel zone to Charleston they could, but it is too far from the industry, just like this CRACKER plant.
Where does it state that in the legislative bill? I know that facts aren't something that you are big on but unless you can point out specifics your arguments are totally baseless.
This thread has gotten out of hand! I just had to delete what i just posted because this debate has gotten way too far off the main point.
Here is how this is going to work! There will no longer be any personal attacks, I mean that is just uncalled for. If you want to post in support (vs. un-support) for the craker Plant then feel free to do so. If you want to comment on someone elses post, please don't name call or use slander in the process. This is a simple subject.
If you feel that the state has in someway violated its right to deal with state commerce, then post on that. Please don't bring other poster into your comments.
Here is my last post on the matter.
I think the Craker Plant in Institute is a great thing for the whole state. Shell skipped us, and Aither steped up to the plate and felt it could build one. Aither is a local company, so money is staying here in WV. The plant is close enough to the gas indusrty to be an effective business, plus is close enough to major customers here in the Charleston area because of our already built up chemical industry. Also close to rail and barge and major highway network.
I have not seen any evidence in this thread that has proven any state corruption. The only link that was posted was off subject, and didn't reveal any corruption either. If the state is offering a tax break to Either I would not be against it unless it was too much. Too much in my opinion would be if Aither would profit more than usual from the break (that is un-caculated) as opposed to other similar related companies in the state. I would listen to any amount of evidence that would prove corruption, but there has been none.
Any other subject I will not discuss because I've covered everything that is worth talking about.
This thread has gotten out of hand! I just had to delete what i just posted because this debate has gotten way too far off the main point.
Here is how this is going to work! There will no longer be any personal attacks, I mean that is just uncalled for. If you want to post in support (vs. un-support) for the craker Plant then feel free to do so. If you want to comment on someone elses post, please don't name call or use slander in the process. This is a simple subject.
If you feel that the state has in someway violated its right to deal with state commerce, then post on that. Please don't bring other poster into your comments.
Here is my last post on the matter.
I think the Craker Plant in Institute is a great thing for the whole state. Shell skipped us, and Aither steped up to the plate and felt it could build one. Aither is a local company, so money is staying here in WV. The plant is close enough to the gas indusrty to be an effective business, plus is close enough to major customers here in the Charleston area because of our already built up chemical industry. Also close to rail and barge and major highway network.
I have not seen any evidence in this thread that has proven any state corruption. The only link that was posted was off subject, and didn't reveal any corruption either. If the state is offering a tax break to Either I would not be against it unless it was too much. Too much in my opinion would be if Aither would profit more than usual from the break (that is un-caculated) as opposed to other similar related companies in the state. I would listen to any amount of evidence that would prove corruption, but there has been none.
Any other subject I will not discuss because I've covered everything that is worth talking about.
Let's be civil!
A cracker any place in the state would be good for the state.
Perhaps "corruption" isn't the right word to use in terms of state government behavior in the recent "Shell" negotiations. The way I understand it, is they operated in such a way as to insure that Kanawha would appear to have an upper hand in the matter. Without telling Marshall County officials, they convinced Kanawha to offer additional tax incentives to Shell if they would build the plant there, then made a presentation to Shell to the extent of "and here is what state government will offer if you build in the state PLUS Kanawha will throw in these additional incentives". If they had been up front in the first place and encouraged local contribution, Marshall would have thrown some in and West Virginia likely would have had the cracker. As it was, and with state complicity (along with some incompetence on the part of local officials in Marshall County who didn't press the issue), Marshall County was caught flat footed and PA got the plant. The only other serious contender was in Hancock County, and the Race Track messed up that deal. Shell was never going to build that massive cracker far away from the raw material source. Why would they do that?
The State of West Virginia very likely could have obtained the cracker in West Virginia, but behind the scenes maneuverings kept that from happening and now Allegheny County, PA and Harrisburg will be getting all the tax revenue. There will still be Northern Panhandle folks working there, but the tax revenue is lost.
Where does it state that in the legislative bill? I know that facts aren't something that you are big on but unless you can point out specifics your arguments are totally baseless.
It absolutely is not in the bill. Some people keep saying that there is something wrong with this bill, but never offer anything concrete to back up their statements. They seem to think they know more about the business of building a cracker than the people who would invest millions of dollars to build one. For example, they seem to know that the plant will fail because it is not close enough to the gas source, but nobody has posting any links to interviews with the investors to see why they consider any particular site. It could be that the site is close to their markets instead of close to their raw materials, but we have no idea because we just hear opinions about why it is such a bad idea, not any discussion about industry studies or links to builders' information.
It absolutely is not in the bill. Some people keep saying that there is something wrong with this bill, but never offer anything concrete to back up their statements. They seem to think they know more about the business of building a cracker than the people who would invest millions of dollars to build one. For example, they seem to know that the plant will fail because it is not close enough to the gas source, but nobody has posting any links to interviews with the investors to see why they consider any particular site. It could be that the site is close to their markets instead of close to their raw materials, but we have no idea because we just hear opinions about why it is such a bad idea, not any discussion about industry studies or links to builders' information.
The primary reason I have seen stated for building a small cracker facility in Kanawha is the fact that the area is sitting on millions of dollars of unused chemical infrastructure that could potentially be used to reduce construction costs.
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That is the dumbest load of crap I've ever heard from you (and that is saying something)! And even if they get the tax break, where is the corruption? There is none, its what most would call hog-wash! 
