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I agree. But if someone always needs to feel hyper-vigilant about protecting their "core values", especially at even the slightest suggestion of "change" or "different", how comfortable are they (or their neighbors) gonna be? Besides, since when has "my way or the highway" ever been a good strategy for "getting along" with folks anywhere?
It really depends what you hold as important or signifcant in your values, beliefs, politics, moral code, etc... Is everything relative depending on the day or do you have a strong sense of right and wrong based on your own ideologies/beliefs? Because I know many liberals who are hyper-vigilant about many things/issues.
Don't forget it goes both ways. Your liberal *values* aren't necessarily going to change even if a conservative person sits down and smokes pot with you right? Or maybe they would. LOL...
As a followup let me just say that I'm the first one to admit conservative extremists are not always easy to get along with or have a conversation with. Heck, I can't even stand listening to ppl like Rush Limbaugh for example - too one sided for me. And I think this hold true for extremist liberals as wells. But the thing is what might seem extreme to one group like going to church and following the teachings of the bible might be common place and completely normal to another. In the same way building a tree fort in a tree to protest it being cut down seems extreme to many. But for tree huggers this is normal, logical thinking and activity.
Even amoungst liberals, conservatives, dems, libertarians and republicans there can be much debate within their/our own circles. So for me its not so much that I need to *agree* with everybody. It may seem like it on a forum such as this where opinions are aired more freely. But normally I like to find things in common in everyday life with ppl and go from there, like a love for the outdoors, nature, mountain biking, surfing, etc... Heck I sometimes have heated debates with my own conservative family and friends over things like healthcare. So I don't expect everyone to agree with my positions on everything.
But could I or another semi-conservative family feel comfortable living in a place like Humboldt County? I don't really know. It may be a stretch. It sure is beautiful up there I know that.
How about asking the same question this way. Could a tree huggin', granola eating, hemp dressing, left leaning, vegan live comfortably in a place like Colorado Spring or Orange County? I guess it would depend on the person. But I think the majority would choose if they could other places where more like minded ppl live like in Santa Cruz, etc... Thats not to say that some don't live those places. Would they want to raise a family there though? I do know some who would say no way.
I've lived in both kinds of places and am a bit more flexible that way to a point. But I also know there certain parts of SF for example that I wouldn't want to live in/near like the Castro District. Although I do enjoy taking my family to places like Golden Gate Park.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 04-16-2010 at 11:38 PM..
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Derek, I hear 'ya, and agreed there are overly "righteous" types on both sides. But generally speaking, liberal & progressive folks are usually more open to "change", at least philosophically-speaking. While conservative folks usually want to "conserve" (i.e. "not change") things, though we can argue what each side holds dear, regardless.
So when the dominant surrounding culture is either one style or the other, it seems to me there are so many opportunities for continual "friction" (not just religious or political either), that at some point you have to wonder whether that's really practical, unless one side or the other is able to "adapt", even just a little. And yes, I'm aware of the value of "tolerance", but just personally, living someplace where I'm always "tolerated" would not be my first choice!
How about asking the same question this way. Could a tree huggin', granola eating, hemp dressing, left leaning, vegan live comfortably in a place like Colorado Spring or Orange County? I guess it would depend on the person. But I think the majority would choose if they could other places where more like minded ppl live like in Santa Cruz, etc... Thats not to say that some don't live those places. Would they want to raise a family there though? I do know some who would say no way.
I've lived in both kinds of places and am a bit more flexible that way to a point. But I also know there certain parts of SF for example that I wouldn't want to live in/near like the Castro District. Although I do enjoy taking my family to places like Golden Gate Park.
Derek
I can't speak for Colorado Springs but liberal-types are a lot more common than one would expect in Orange County. Sitting between LA & San Diego, Orange county continues to swing left. The older bigot-leaning Mormons are dying out as Asians\ Latino numbers increase. I think the larger cities [Santa Ana\ Newport Beach\ Laguna Beach\ Irvine\ Fullerton] are Democratic.
Super-conservatives are probably very ill-at-ease anywhere in California since the overwhelming majority reject racism\ sexism.
I can't speak for Colorado Springs but liberal-types are a lot more common than one would expect in Orange County. Sitting between LA & San Diego, Orange county continues to swing left. The older bigot-leaning Mormons are dying out as Asians\ Latino numbers increase. I think the larger cities [Santa Ana\ Newport Beach\ Laguna Beach\ Irvine\ Fullerton] are Democratic.
Super-conservatives are probably very ill-at-ease anywhere in California since the overwhelming majority reject racism\ sexism.
Interesting comments about OC. I wonder if it is considered less conservative than SD now.
With regards to racism/sexism I don't think those folks are exclusively super-conservative, although that might be your stereotype. I think conservatives like their liberal counterparts have more in common than most realize. There are ppl on both sides of the aisle who are passionate about certain issues, causes, ideals, agendas, etc... But does racism still exist? Unfortunately yes. However its not exclusive to any one group. In the same way that corruption, criminal activity, etc... are not limited by affiliation with any certain political party. Statements like "All those liberal politicians" want to ruin California have very little relation to liberals in general. True we have some bad politicians. But the fact that most of them are liberal doesn't necessarily mean that all liberal dems want to overtax and spend us into insolvency.
Diversity is one of the things which make California a great state. For those who aren't used to it it might come as a surprise. But even those (both liberal & conservatives) who have lived here for many years can get fed up with illegals, etc... Does that make them racists? I don't think necessarily so.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 04-17-2010 at 11:46 AM..
I've lived in both kinds of places and am a bit more flexible that way to a point. But I also know there certain parts of SF for example that I wouldn't want to live in/near like the Castro District. Although I do enjoy taking my family to places like Golden Gate Park.
Derek
Yes there are homophobes in Humbolt, perhaps you'll fit right in.
Yes there are homophobes in Humbolt, perhaps you'll fit right in.
Typical liberal stereotyping of anyone conservative. Not a great way to start out on CD. Hopefully your narrow mindedness does not represent the majority of left leaners in that area.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer
It really depends what you hold as important or signifcant in your values, beliefs, politics, moral code, etc... Is everything relative depending on the day or do you have a strong sense of right and wrong based on your own ideologies/beliefs? Because I know many liberals who are hyper-vigilant about many things/issues.
Don't forget it goes both ways. Your liberal *values* aren't necessarily going to change even if a conservative person sits down and smokes pot with you right? Or maybe they would. LOL...
Derek
Of course, everyone, right or left, has "core values". But put in the simplest terms, I tend to think of the key differences between "liberal" and "conservative" as really boiling down to one's attitudes about dealing with "change" in life, with conservatives obviously preferring to "conserve" things (i.e. wanting "no change" in the status quo).
Which is to say that, relocating anywhere requires alot of adaptation & change itself, but especially if you're gonna live in a place where "change" in the status quo is the dominant theme there (in attitudes re: everything from m/f roles, politics, drugs, sexuality, religion, you name it...). Then, that approach to most everything in life is relentlessly going to be "in your face", regardless how "tolerant" everybody else is of your own values. And though it may be do-able, the continuous "coping" doesn't sound all that desireable. So the only real alternative is to over time, just be able to let some of it "go" occasionally (i.e. adapt & "change").
In fact the marijuana example is a good one, because the essence of the experience is often that very openness & receptivity, to the "unexpected" and to relinquishing "control" ("ooh, far out, man...!").
Of course, everyone, right or left, has "core values". But put in the simplest terms, I tend to think of the key differences between "liberal" and "conservative" as really boiling down to one's attitudes about dealing with "change" in life, with conservatives obviously preferring to "conserve" things (i.e. wanting "no change" in the status quo).
Which is to say that, relocating anywhere requires alot of adaptation & change itself, but especially if you're gonna live in a place where "change" in the status quo is the dominant theme there (in attitudes re: everything from m/f roles, politics, drugs, sexuality, religion, you name it...). Then, that approach to most everything in life is relentlessly going to be "in your face", regardless how "tolerant" everybody else is of your own values. And though it may be do-able, the continuous "coping" doesn't sound all that desireable. So the only real alternative is to over time, just be able to let some of it "go" occasionally (i.e. adapt & "change").
In fact the marijuana example is a good one, because the essence of the experience is often that very openness & receptivity, to the "unexpected" and to relinquishing "control" ("ooh, far out, man...!").
While I think I can relate to what you are describing in general terms, there are many types of conservatives just like many liberals - blue dog democrats for example. In my case I actually like change and have lived in a variety of areas both liberal and conservative. Its interesting to experience many places. Take military families for example. Many are conservative, but none the less enjoy moving and living in different places and experiencing different cultures. I work with conservative ppl like this every day.
So this idea that conservatives don't like change I disagree with at least in part. On the other hand there are certain things like one's core values that ppl want to preserve/maintain. So it really depends on the kind of change one is talking about. If a family doesn't smoke pot they are not going to start just to blend in to some kind of maryjane culture. And I'm sure there are liberals who don't smoke pot who feel the same way. Its just not for everyone plain and simple.
BTW, I grew up in the 60s in California. So I am very familiar with the whole hippie, far out, counter culture mind set including the use of mind altering substances for whatever reasons. But that was then and this is now. I think a lot of young ppl seem to want to go back to the 60s and then there are some old hippies who never left. And maybe the the Emerald Triangle is a great place for these folks to continue to live in the same bohemian fashion. But its not all about peace and love anymore - pot is Big Business in the area bottom line.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 05-01-2010 at 09:50 PM..
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