The Great California Exodus Accelerates (Stockton, Commerce: colleges, subdivision, exemptions)

[blameyourself]

https://livability.com/topics/make-y...or-relocation/

The top five reasons why Americans move are:
A new or better home/apartment (15 percent)

New job or job transfer (11 percent)

To establish own household (10 percent)

A family reason (other than getting married or starting a household) (8 percent)

Wanted to own a home rather than rent (7 percent)

Top one is an affordability issue and also related to family (that's the reason you need a bigger house). The report is from the U.S. Census bureau.

[bethereds82]

Interesting stats.

I didn't mind living in L.A. during my 20's and 30's. In fact it was a blast living in California before marriage.

After one kid, with another one on the way we bolted for ATL. No particular reason, except for the fact that the weather was better in ATL than Austin or Dallas.

We love the ATL suburbs a lot. I also loved Torrance, Lomita, El Segundo and Koreatown-- but tbh affordability was a major issue for us. My wife and I both have graduate degrees and could afford to live in Cali. We just chose not to.

To me when I see these percentages on why people relocate out of Cali it just hammers home that it's a quality of life decision. Less stress, mom or dad can be a stay at home parent, mortgage in a new place could be cheaper than your current rent, top notch public schools.... heck. Even not paying for grocery bags at Ralphs, or not having to pay to park everywhere really adds up. Especially when gas is still under $4 a gallon here.

Did I mention we pay way less in State Income Tax as well? And if you're lucky you may be able to keep your California salary in a new state.

I still think about what/if we moved back to Cali. It happens once or twice a year. When that thought comes into my mind-- it's shot down within 20 seconds. Mainly because our quality of life would be negatively impacted. Having said that if i had won the lotto I think we could make the move back

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by bethereds82

Interesting stats.

I didn't mind living in L.A. during my 20's and 30's. In fact it was a blast living in California before marriage.

After one kid, with another one on the way we bolted for ATL. No particular reason, except for the fact that the weather was better in ATL than Austin or Dallas.

We love the ATL suburbs a lot. I also loved Torrance, Lomita, El Segundo and Koreatown-- but tbh affordability was a major issue for us. My wife and I both have graduate degrees and could afford to live in Cali. We just chose not to.

To me when I see these percentages on why people relocate out of Cali it just hammers home that it's a quality of life decision. Less stress, mom or dad can be a stay at home parent, mortgage in a new place could be cheaper than your current rent, top notch public schools.... heck. Even not paying for grocery bags at Ralphs, or not having to pay to park everywhere really adds up. Especially when gas is still under $4 a gallon here.

Did I mention we pay way less in State Income Tax as well? And if you're lucky you may be able to keep your California salary in a new state.

I still think about what/if we moved back to Cali. It happens once or twice a year. When that thought comes into my mind-- it's shot down within 20 seconds. Mainly because our quality of life would be negatively impacted. Having said that if i had won the lotto I think we could make the move back

I get it and much of what you're talking about are affordability issues. With that said, the possible "move back" really depends. Long time homeowners in CA that moved but held on to their homes may actually have more affordable living in retirement in CA due to property taxes (depending on where the move was to).

It's funny you mention the shopping bags as it's no different in Austin (you have to pay for bags in this area). Gas to me is no big deal. People driving 12k miles a year and getting 25mpg gallon are buying 480 gallons of gas per year. That amounts to about $1k per year more if gas is $2 more per gallon (or $20 a week). I get 41 mpg so it's $600 more ($12.50 per week).

I have friend right now paying $20k a year in property tax. We pay roughly $13,500. Someone in their 50's with at least 10-15 years before retirement could easily get to that $20k range. So in retirement, it's like they're still paying rent of almost $1700 a month in property tax. Our home in CA has a current property tax bill of a little over $6k, so $500 a month (and it only goes up about 2% per year thanks to Prop 13). And of course the income taxes in retirement will be significantly less (a family having an income of $100k will pay about $6k in taxes). Clearly the overall tax paid in CA (property and state) by a long time resident will be less than that property tax in some of these states with no state income taxes so it's clearly a consideration. Needless to say, it depends on the situation.

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

It's funny you mention the shopping bags as it's no different in Austin (you have to pay for bags in this area). Gas to me is no big deal. People driving 12k miles a year and getting 25mpg gallon are buying 480 gallons of gas per year. That amounts to about $1k per year more if gas is $2 more per gallon (or $20 a week). I get 41 mpg so it's $600 more ($12.50 per week).

I have friend right now paying $20k a year in property tax. We pay roughly $13,500. Someone in their 50's with at least 10-15 years before retirement could easily get to that $20k range. So in retirement, it's like they're still paying rent of almost $1700 a month in property tax. Our home in CA has a current property tax bill of a little over $6k, so $500 a month (and it only goes up about 2% per year thanks to Prop 13). And of course the income taxes in retirement will be significantly less (a family having an income of $100k will pay about $6k in taxes). Clearly the overall tax paid in CA (property and state) by a long time resident will be less than that property tax in some of these states with no state income taxes so it's clearly a consideration. Needless to say, it depends on the situation.

Austin is the most liberal part of Texas and other Texas cities literally have property tax rates around 2% while Austin has a whopping 3.5%. In addition, housing costs are 2x+ what they cost in the rest of Texas due to California style zoning issues, high local pension obligations that drive up permit costs.

I’m not sure why you own property in Texas while you hate it. There’s no income tax, but if you’re living in CA you’re paying income tax anyway.

PS. My relative lost much of his prop 13 because he had to completely redo his 3 bedroom house in San Jose that was becoming unlivable due to mold in the walls etc. Property taxes were 8k when they bought it in 2005, now it’s about 20k.

I know people in Raleigh, NC that pay less than 5k in property taxes on 3 bedroom homes with a yard. Maybe get out of your bubble. Oh yeah and the local schools are far better than CA.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

I get it and much of what you're talking about are affordability issues.

And not just long time homeowners; anyone who bought between 2008 and 2013 is probably doing just fine.

Originally Posted by blameyourself

It's funny you mention the shopping bags

That's one thing I LOVE about California. People care about the environment.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

My relative lost much of his prop 13 because he had to completely redo his 3 bedroom house in San Jose that was becoming unlivable due to mold in the walls etc. Property taxes were 8k when they bought it in 2005, now it’s about 20k.

One doesn't "lose" Prop. 13. Their property just gets re-assessed when major home improvements are made.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

Poor school quality is a #1 issue for many families.

If you can’t afford private school or an extremely rich town like Palo Alto you’re often in classes that are 30%+ illegals.

This is just not true.

[MechAndy]

There are a lot of people getting taxed out of Washington state and other states due to the increasing property taxes in their retirement years.
This is a problem that is not going to go away.

These lopsided property tax situations also help in hindering the economy with locking up all that money.
I know it has effected and kept me from upgrading my living situation while what it’s doing to some on the other side of the coin seems almost criminal.

It not just the newer transplants it’s also a decent portion of the people that were raised there.
Needless to say there is a decent amount of resentment when locals see a large influx of Californians moving into their area and jacking their property tax when they do that bidding war thing.

We fall into the category where it would be more affordable to retire in California and have had to properly plan for that not to be an issue for us but you never know.

We spend most of our time out of California because we like less people, cooler weather and prefer green hills over brown hills.
We continue to come back to California because we really like it and we have a house in hostage.

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

Austin is the most liberal part of Texas and other Texas cities literally have property tax rates around 2% while Austin has a whopping 3.5%. In addition, housing costs are 2x+ what they cost in the rest of Texas due to California style zoning issues, high local pension obligations that drive up permit costs.

I’m not sure why you own property in Texas while you hate it. There’s no income tax, but if you’re living in CA you’re paying income tax anyway.

PS. My relative lost much of his prop 13 because he had to completely redo his 3 bedroom house in San Jose that was becoming unlivable due to mold in the walls etc. Property taxes were 8k when they bought it in 2005, now it’s about 20k.

I know people in Raleigh, NC that pay less than 5k in property taxes on 3 bedroom homes with a yard. Maybe get out of your bubble. Oh yeah and the local schools are far better than CA.

Sorry to hear about your relative, but that's not my concern. I'm a realist and I give honest opinions of pros and cons to each area. I never said I hated it (I find your conjecture quite boring at this point but do feel free to give an exact quote by me saying that). Our move was a move to solidify retirement funding and have a bigger house temporarily for the grandkids). The great thing about it is, we were smart enough not to sell so now we have options that many don't have that go for that windfall instead of hanging on to their homes.

There is no blanket 2% rate in Texas and there is little consistency compared to California. Tax rates are set by the area that people live in. The budget is established first and then they set a tax rate so it varies by year. If you want to live near the city and in a good tax district, you will pay higher taxes. Most of those lower rates are rural areas.

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Sorry to hear about your relative, but that's not my concern. I'm a realist and I give honest opinions of pros and cons to each area. I never said I hated it (I find your conjecture quite boring at this point but do feel free to give an exact quote by me saying that). Our move was a move to solidify retirement funding and have a bigger house temporarily for the grandkids). The great thing about it is, we were smart enough not to sell so now we have options that many don't have that go for that windfall instead of hanging on to their homes.

There is no blanket 2% rate in Texas and there is little consistency compared to California. Tax rates are set by the area that people live in. The budget is established first and then they set a tax rate so it varies by year. If you want to live near the city and in a good tax district, you will pay higher taxes. Most of those lower rates are rural areas.

Dallas county is 2.22% and Harris county is 2.13%. Suburbs in neighboring counties cost even less.

Travis county is absolutely an anomaly, largely due to politics.