Coronavirus (Los Angeles, San Jose, Sacramento: snake, fire departments, domestic)

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by joosoon

This will sound cynical, but a new "variant" which effectively defeats the existing vaccines would be a new opportunity for big pharma. And I don't see any of them chomping at the bit to take advantage of this. The whole point of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine was to be flexible enough to deal with mutations, right? It seems to be working just fine but for some reason, confidence in this plan is being eroded without any evidence that it's happening. The breakthrough cases in parts of Asia were concerning only because they seemed to be finding hosts specifically in the unvaccinated (kids under 12) which makes perfect sense... they're not vaccinated.

I don’t think it’s being cynical, I think it’s being realistic. However, I’m pretty cynical myself. I think pharma’s opportunity WILL be these variants in that they’ll say a yearly booster shot will be needed.

A friend got her second shot and told her doctor she was going to get the vaccine card laminated. Her doctor told her not to, because there was bound to be boosters that would have to be entered on the card. We’ll see.

[goodheathen]

Face masks are relevant. First of all, masks do add a literal extra level of protection, and an intellectually honest study would tease out vaccine immunity from mask protection, but that would have been dangerous and therefore unethical in earlier phases of the pandemic.

Furthermore, the manufacturer attributed the failure to variants, but masks make up a fair amount versus variants, so that tells me masks weren't used religiously in the trial.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Good question. I know of at least two people during tier1 who had trouble scheduling a second dose because of scarcity at the time. I wonder too if some of the data is just incomplete, skewing those numbers. Case in point: I got my shot through VEBA partnered through UCSD Health. Weeks after I had the second dose, they continued to send me emails to schedule the second shot. The same thing with the state's myturn website. They continue to tell me I'm now eligible and try to get me to schedule an appointment for the first dose.



If anything, I bet the numbers of fully vaccinated people statewide is higher than it's reading. And fwiw, I just read SD county hit the 85% threshold now. I'd call that a success for only a few months of broad availability.

Lucky you. I noted last year that LA is full of idiots and nobody really acknowledged that, but now the low vaccination rate bears it out.

You might be right that the data is incomplete. For example, some people got the first dose in another state. LA being a place with a very fluid population. Still, that probably doesn't outweigh the seldom-mentioned reality that, say, 10% of vaccine recipients get a below-expected immune response, sometimes by a lot and usually without knowing it.

Originally Posted by joosoon

Better yet, lack of accurate data.

For one thing, the rate of vaccination isn't that far off for LA first responders than it is for the general population. But if you actually read that article closely, it pretty much tells you that the percentages were gleaned by survey and incomplete data. The authors jump to the conclusion that there's an underlying hesitancy issue but they say it in the same keystrokes as "lack of universal tracking". In other words, they're just guessing. There's no mandate in LE or emergency services, or any other job for that matter, to reveal to employers an individual's covid vaccination status.



Much ado about nothing.

Anyone else notice he routinely puts a rosy spin on things?

The presumption on hesitance probably is based on anecdotal experience with those types of people. Nobody here would bet against law enforcement bravado leading to not getting the vaccine. I said yesterday that police aren't unusually uneducated, so why would the vaccination rate probably be lower than for other college grads, especially when exposure is higher than average in correctional facilities? Well, because mostly male, but that itself is associated with bravado. https://patch.com/california/los-ang...rads-increases - cops likely are more educated than most other LA adults. LAPD definitely requires at least a 2-year degree. Maybe some long-time cops got in before then, whenever it became a requirement (decades ago, I'm guessing).

[goodheathen]

Here's more about vaccination for LAPD specifically.
https://www.dailynews.com/2021/05/12...ees-on-friday/

Obviously the program should have been extended. I'm thinking there might be a logistical problem for some officers who work daytime shifts because they probably hardly get lunch breaks. But they could get jabbed on the weekend. Side note: I've never seen a cop in uniform in a pharmacy.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

You might be right that the data is incomplete. For example, some people got the first dose in another state.

I seriously doubt that very many people went out of state to get their first COVID vaccination. Not just because of the lack of safety in regard to it but the scrutiny around one's ID.

Whatever's currently happening, California's doing a lot better than many other states right now. We have one third the confirmed virus case rate and one third the death rate per 100 K in the past 14 days of Florida, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I seriously doubt that very many people went out of state to get their first COVID vaccination. Not just because of the lack of safety in regard to it but the scrutiny around one's ID.

Whatever's currently happening, California's doing a lot better than many other states right now. We have one third the confirmed virus case rate and one third the death rate per 100 K in the past 14 days of Florida, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada.

Not what I meant. Context. The sentence you didn't quote. I meant people might have moved into California soon after getting the first shot. Also, in LA, it's not rare for people to have residences out of state. I think all that could comprise 1% of people in Los Angeles who are reported to have had only one shot.

I hardly know what's happening in Colorado, Utah, and Nevada, but I believe mask wearing in Florida now is uncommon and that's the key problem. Around here, in most establishments I've visited, it remains a strongly followed norm, and some (a few at least) counties in California probably never had major COVID problems.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Anyone else notice he routinely puts a rosy spin on things?

Or, that I simply read things more carefully.

The presumption on hesitance probably is based on anecdotal experience with those types of people.

Maybe partly, but it says in no unambiguous terms that the percentage they came up with for LE/emergency personnel was extrapolated from incomplete data. There's no hard number to work with for number of cops or firemen who have been vaccinated because it's not something an employer can ask and turn into a public database. It's putting the cart in front of the horse to draw a conclusion that "bravado" or anything else is the driving factor of something if that *something* isn't proven to begin with... and it's not.



If you want to speculate otherwise, it's a free country so knock yourself out.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Whatever's currently happening, California's doing a lot better than many other states right now.

The U.S. and world over is doing pretty well all things considered. Start to finish, this pandemic and its solution are neatly wrapped up in about a years' time frame. We've vaccinated a crap-ton of people in a really short amount of time across the country. Compare that to how drawn out the polio vaccine was several decades ago. I'll take this as a win.


On the same note, I read an article recently about how the efforts to develop a SARS and later a MERS vaccine fizzled out because of "lack of interest". What struck me was how much for-profit pharma has to do with whether something becomes a thing or not. In the piece I read, it mentioned how with SARS, vaccine research was limited to educational endeavors (i.e. universities and such) and how without the money from pharma, it never stood a chance. And since SARS basically disappeared on its own, all that research faded away when it became obvious that it was a niche area to invest in. It also talked about how that research helped develop the covid19 vaccine though, so there was a silver lining realized twenty years later.



Had this not been widespread in the U.S., I bet we would be ignoring it like the prior coronavirus pandemics which took forever to even reach our shores, let alone take a foothold here.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

The U.S. and world over is doing pretty well all things considered. Start to finish, this pandemic and its solution are neatly wrapped up in about a years' time frame. We've vaccinated a crap-ton of people in a really short amount of time across the country. Compare that to how drawn out the polio vaccine was several decades ago. I'll take this as a win.


On the same note, I read an article recently about how the efforts to develop a SARS and later a MERS vaccine fizzled out because of "lack of interest". What struck me was how much for-profit pharma has to do with whether something becomes a thing or not. In the piece I read, it mentioned how with SARS, vaccine research was limited to educational endeavors (i.e. universities and such) and how without the money from pharma, it never stood a chance. And since SARS basically disappeared on its own, all that research faded away when it became obvious that it was a niche area to invest in. It also talked about how that research helped develop the covid19 vaccine though, so there was a silver lining realized twenty years later.



Had this not been widespread in the U.S., I bet we would be ignoring it like the prior coronavirus pandemics which took forever to even reach our shores, let alone take a foothold here.

Agreed here. When these threads first started last year with posters pulling their hair at the notion of wearing masks and quarantining and shut downs, I remarked repeatedly that, even if it took a year to sort out, the inconveniences and struggles wouldn’t begin to match up with anything, other than those experiences of actual loss of life and crippling, I’d personally call serious suffering, sacrifice, struggle. Yeah yeah yeah I know some folks lost a wad of money and some businesses closed down … and all that sucks. But historical perspective of wars and disease and famines says this was a frustrating hiccup with a damn good and timely resolution. Again with exception of those deceased and their loved ones. … But masks? Social distancing? Eating meals at home? No movie theatre or concert nights? Really?

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Or, that I simply read things more carefully.

Like the 20% hesitancy mentioned in the other article I posted to this afternoon? The number is from last year, however.

Maybe partly, but it says in no unambiguous terms that the percentage they came up with for LE/emergency personnel was extrapolated from incomplete data. There's no hard number to work with for number of cops or firemen who have been vaccinated because it's not something an employer can ask and turn into a public database. It's putting the cart in front of the horse to draw a conclusion that "bravado" or anything else is the driving factor of something if that *something* isn't proven to begin with... and it's not.



If you want to speculate otherwise, it's a free country so knock yourself out.

This isn't new or local, and LA isn't doing badly in that sense. I haven't paid much attention, but for example https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/us/po...ncy/index.html

It's most likely something about police themselves, I suppose being blue-collar males, maybe that they're not elderly also is a factor in spurning vaccines. I've known or interacted with very few firefighters in my life, so I'm just guessing they think a lot like cops.

Re education levels, police probably is the most educated of all clearly blue-collar occupations.

One legitimate reason police and firefighters might not want the vaccine is that it's not uncommon for the arm to hurt and not be of much use the next day. That's much worse for that type of work than for a desk jockey.

I don't think there will be much improvement among hesitant groups until the vaccine is no longer "experimental" or, for cops and firefighters, it's an employment prerequisite (and I'm not sure it needs to be for firefighters).