Love SoCal, Can't Afford a House Here, where to folks go? (San Diego: cul-de-sac, apartment)

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Originally Posted by RuggedAlpha

Love reading your posts. Where are you from originally? What part of CA are you living now?

I'm like you. I could never live outside the state. The top 3 reasons why I love it here:

1. Biodiversity:CA has it all. Beaches, mountains, forests, deserts, lakes, rivers, islands, canyons, volcanoes, hot springs, etc.

2. Public Land:Approximately half the state is protected and set aside for public use. So many states prohibit their citizens from enjoying the land by privatizing the majority of it like Texas, Maine, Oklahoma, Ohio, etc.

3. Recreation: The sheer amount of cool things to do here is incredible. For example, last weekend I went to the San Diego Zoo. This weekend I'm going to Seaworld. In 2 weeks I"m going to Big Bear for a week. I'm most likely taking my wife to Laguna Beach for her birthday in August. I'm taking my son to Disneyland on his birthday in September.

How kind of you to ask :-) I grew up in San Leandro (next to Oakland) in the SF Bay Area. Moved to WA right out of high school, then to TN, back to WA, to Mexico, to Canada, and finally back to CA.

I'd add to your list the fact that our weather also makes it easy to enjoy all of the above vs. somewhere like Redding, CA, where there are incredibly wonderful recreational options - but - the weather is 106 degrees (like this week and I experienced it up to 117 degrees), and it doesn't cool down until about 5am. So, you can't enjoy it.

Now, I'm back in the SF Bay Area, and happy as can be, even though I'm really low income. It's all about the weather first, things to do second. And, third, being around people you mesh with. In the Bay Area, I can find my peeps. And I also appreciate that there are lots of other peeps who aren't like me, who can find their own groups. The area is not one type of people - not all white or all one kind of religion or political bent, etc. I like the diversity. It makes us more accepting of different cultures and politics, etc., when we all share the same space. It's hard to hate a certain kind of person, when you run into them all of the time, and you find them to be kind and polite, etc., if you catch my meaning.

I just love it here. Warts and all.

[RuggedAlpha]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

How kind of you to ask :-) I grew up in San Leandro (next to Oakland) in the SF Bay Area. Moved to WA right out of high school, then to TN, back to WA, to Mexico, to Canada, and finally back to CA.

I'd add to your list the fact that our weather also makes it easy to enjoy all of the above vs. somewhere like Redding, CA, where there are incredibly wonderful recreational options - but - the weather is 106 degrees (like this week and I experienced it up to 117 degrees), and it doesn't cool down until about 5am. So, you can't enjoy it.

Now, I'm back in the SF Bay Area, and happy as can be, even though I'm really low income. It's all about the weather first, things to do second. And, third, being around people you mesh with. In the Bay Area, I can find my peeps. And I also appreciate that there are lots of other peeps who aren't like me, who can find their own groups. The area is not one type of people - not all white or all one kind of religion or political bent, etc. I like the diversity. It makes us more accepting of different cultures and politics, etc., when we all share the same space. It's hard to hate a certain kind of person, when you run into them all of the time, and you find them to be kind and polite, etc., if you catch my meaning.

I just love it here. Warts and all.

Thanks for sharing. That's cool how you've lived in different states and countries. So your list for loving CA is the following:

1. Weather
2. Things to Do
3. Diversity

All good points. I need to visit the Bay Area. My wife and I were going to go last year, but she got pregnant and decided to wait. Do you have any good recommendations?

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

I ran a calculation on another thread on the cost of living. For the sacrafice of living in a state that has 90% of what Ca has, it is possible to invest the difference and in 10 years have over 3 million. In 15 years it was 5 million.

How did you come up with these numbers? How much are you investing, and what % are you using for your return? If you can make these numbers investing just what you’re saving living elsewhere, you wouldn’t even be concerned with the cost of living here.

Also I’d like to know which states have 90% of what California has, but a substantial lower cost of living.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by RuggedAlpha

Rebuttal

1. I would argue that Northeastern CA has desert and is within a relatively short distance of 150 miles from Redding. Even if you want go with the 3 traditional deserts CA has, you are greatly exaggerating by saying it's 800 miles.

Death Valley National Park is approximately 500 miles away. Granted, it's still a drive, but it's 300 miles less than what you say. Also don't forget the beautiful desert of The Great Basin Desert with some spectacular scenery, such as the Alabama Hills which is right by the Sierras.

Also, I wasn't putting down other beaches. I was challenging the claim that Alabama beaches are much better than any beaches here. Sure, I pointed out that I'm not a fan of a flat coastline with lots of high-rises. Personal preference. Other states have great coastlines as well.

2. I never said CA had the most public land. AK & NV have the most. All I said was about half the state was set aside for public use. This is very important to me because I take full advantage as a citizen. For example, the state that you live in Georgia, only has 9.7% public land. No offence, but that's truly pathetic.

3. So please tell me where else I can have a beach vacation, mountain vacation, visit world-class theme parks (not you're typical amusement parks), go to multiple major cities (most states only have 1 major city) weekend after weekend all in 1 state? I'll wait. The amount of recreational opportunities here are unparalleled and frankly I don't know why you're trying to argue this point.

Northern California is a nature's lovers paradise so I would be very happy there as well.

4. Dude if I want to spend my hard-earned money to live in CA because I'm happy here, who are you to tell me I'm wrong. Why does it bother you that I'm truly enjoying my life here and have no interest to go live in the South like you? There are still plenty of affordable areas in CA.

I'm just tired of having an army of posters, many who don't even live here, tell me I'm wrong that I'm happy as a clam in CA and that I should live somewhere else. It's annoying.

PS Are you a millionaire now that you don't live in CA? Why are you even on these threads when you don't live in the state?

I'm not one to tell you how to spend your hard earned money. Somehow I missed the part where I told you personally how to spend it. Maybe you can point that part out.
I also don't see the army of posters telling you that you are wrong to be happy living there. I see people pointing out good points and bad points of ca. Are you so insecure that you take those that bring up bad points as a personal attack on your choice to live in California? Even when those points are legitimate?
Then again why are you so worried what posters you don't know think?

As to your last paragraph.
1. yes. Millionaire x2. Except for the 5 days I work in a year, I'm retired. Most of that net worth accumulated in the last 3 years after moving. I can afford to not work in Atlanta and lead an upper middle class life in a 5200 sq ft house I bought, in California not so much. Couldn't have even bought a starter home.
How much is it costing to own your house there? Or are you renting?
2. While I don't live in California now, I still visit friends and family in California. So I have an interest in California. If we're going to talk about residence in California I've been away for 3 years and I'm pretty sure I've lived in California 20 to 30 years longer than you have. So I have more California experience than you. Why does your post have any more value than mine?

As I said I was once a proud Californian like you who thought it was the best place on earth and nothing could touch it for any price.
Then I started running hypothetical scenarios for financial reasons and realized I could have 90 percent of what California offered to me as far as amenities but could have financial freedom if I moved.
Sure I miss the weather, but it's not that bad here.
For me it was:
A. great weather and have to work to make ends meet in California
or
B. get 90 percent of that with okay weather and not have to work again and be financially secure.
I chose b
With the money I save on a lower col and a free schedule because I no longer have to work a job, I can fly to California and enjoy it anytime I want and as often as I want. The best of both worlds.
Given those choices can you honesty say you'd stay in California?

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

How did you come up with these numbers? How much are you investing, and what % are you using for your return? If you can make these numbers investing just what you’re saving living elsewhere, you wouldn’t even be concerned with the cost of living here.

Also I’d like to know which states have 90% of what California has, but a substantial lower cost of living.

Depends on what you want to consider, but for me health care, amenities to shopping and services, safe place to live, nice people.
Really the only thing I couldn't match that matters to me is weather and you have to decide how much weather is worth.
Everything I did in daily life in the San Francisco Bay Area I do in marietta, a suburb of Atlanta.

Somewhere on cd there is a post where someone was trying to decide whether they should buy a house in California. Based on that I ran the amount the person would pay in piti in California versus the same house here in Atlanta. I know because I looked at the prices of a 5200 sq ft house in Dublin, California.
I then took the difference in piti for both and then invested it in the market each month and ran it through a calculator online based on what the market averaged historically . If you can find it I posted my results there.

Btw my house was 460k here. A similar house in Dublin was about 1.6 million, you can look up the payments if you buy that 1.6 million dollar home. The payment difference is substantial. Off the top of my head it was maybe 8k a month difference.
Yes if you made enough to afford that payment in Dublin close to 10k a month and Also made income that allowed you to invest the difference in the 2 homes every month (another 8k) and have enough income to live on added on top of that you could have that money . But how many people are making 350 or more per year?
Also add in taxes. I didn't factor in if the mortgage deduction limit would affect you in California. Here it is well below the 750k. In California some people will pay more in taxes on that.

And yes, I'm not concerned for myself about the col there because I decided to move. But I have friends that struggle to make it there and I do care for the welfare of my friends.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Depends on what you want to consider, but for me health care, amenities to shopping and services, safe place to live, nice people.
Really the only thing I couldn't match that matters to me is weather and you have to decide how much weather is worth.
Everything I did in daily life in the San Francisco Bay Area I do in marietta, a suburb of Atlanta.

Somewhere on cd there is a post where someone was trying to decide whether they should buy a house in California. Based on that I ran the amount the person would pay in piti in California versus the same house here in Atlanta. I know because I looked at the prices of a 5200 sq ft house in Dublin, California.
I then took the difference in piti for both and then invested it in the market each month and ran it through a calculator online based on what the market averaged historically . If you can find it I posted my results there.

Btw my house was 460k here. A similar house in Dublin was about 1.6 million, you can look up the payments if you buy that 1.6 million dollar home. The payment difference is substantial. Off the top of my head it was maybe 8k a month difference.
Yes if you made enough to afford that payment in Dublin close to 10k a month and Also made income that allowed you to invest the difference in the 2 homes every month (another 8k) and have enough income to live on added on top of that you could have that money . But how many people are making 350 or more per year?
Also add in taxes. I didn't factor in if the mortgage deduction limit would affect you in California. Here it is well below the 750k. In California some people will pay more in taxes on that.

And yes, I'm not concerned for myself about the col there because I decided to move. But I have friends that struggle to make it there and I do care for the welfare of my friends.

So basically you’re using income in the top 1% for you example. For the overwhelming majority of us your example has no merit.

Another flaw in your example is how much they’ll spend on housing. Nothing against Marieta, GA, but someone earning $350K probably isn’t gonna want to live in a city where 20% of its citizens live below the poverty line(city data’s numbers). Top earners are gonna want to live in the nicest areas. After a quick search for Atlanta’s top neighborhoods and suburbs, it looks like you’ll be paying a lot more than $460K, sometimes close to double that and more, especially for your 5,200 sqft example. Not to say there’s not great houses to be had at a great price, I just looked at plenty.

Another thing to consider is how California’s housing appreciates. Buy a $500K house in California and one in Georgia and tell me their value 30 years from now. Heck take $500K house and a $750K-$1M house and you’ll still be way ahead even with the extra principal and interest. I can’t comment on property taxes, but I’m sure Georgia isn’t as good as California.

I don’t know your situation, but you say you’ve become a millionaire two times over in the three years since moving there. That’s very impressive, and obviously took a lot of capital to get there, unless your gains are all on paper. If that’s the case I’d highly recommend liquidating a good portion. Back to reality, and the real world for most, the OP specifically. If someone wants to move to Georgia to save some money, and live in a bigger house, be my guest. I personally don’t believe Georgia has 90% of what California has to offer.

[BeauCharles]

Originally Posted by k374

I find it ridiculous that people think that California is the only livable place in the universe, must have a pretty inexperienced view of the world. I've been to 60+ countries and can tell you that it's nice but there are much nicer and cheaper places around. Weather is not the only single criteria to evaluate a place. The weather in New York is mostly terrible yet there are a ton of people who absolutely love living there.

And no, people living elsewhere are not suffering and wishing they could live in CA. They are doing just fine and are very happy with their situation.

I don't think anyone in this thread said that. As a matter of fact I don't think anyone in this state thinks that. Most prefer to stay here because its nice enough and its HOME. Good enough reasons to stay anywhere.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

So basically you’re using income in the top 1% for you example. For the overwhelming majority of us your example has no merit.

Another flaw in your example is how much they’ll spend on housing. Nothing against Marieta, GA, but someone earning $350K probably isn’t gonna want to live in a city where 20% of its citizens live below the poverty line(city data’s numbers). Top earners are gonna want to live in the nicest areas. After a quick search for Atlanta’s top neighborhoods and suburbs, it looks like you’ll be paying a lot more than $460K, sometimes close to double that and more, especially for your 5,200 sqft example. Not to say there’s not great houses to be had at a great price, I just looked at plenty.

Another thing to consider is how California’s housing appreciates. Buy a $500K house in California and one in Georgia and tell me their value 30 years from now. Heck take $500K house and a $750K-$1M house and you’ll still be way ahead even with the extra principal and interest. I can’t comment on property taxes, but I’m sure Georgia isn’t as good as California.

I don’t know your situation, but you say you’ve become a millionaire two times over in the three years since moving there. That’s very impressive, and obviously took a lot of capital to get there, unless your gains are all on paper. If that’s the case I’d highly recommend liquidating a good portion. Back to reality, and the real world for most, the OP specifically. If someone wants to move to Georgia to save some money, and live in a bigger house, be my guest. I personally don’t believe Georgia has 90% of what California has to offer.

No you are missing the point.
Someone could live in that house and save that much money in California if they earned that much. But if they didn't make 350k a year someone can still afford the house, they just won't be banking anything since most of their income will be going to that house payment.
Now if they had enough income to afford that house payment and picked moving to the cheaper house in Georgia and banked the difference they would have a huge nest egg built up. btw for disclosure, I did calculate the difference in down payment for 20% down as the starting amount to invest.

It's funny you would say affluent people wouldn't live in a city where 20 percent are below poverty. You do realize that's akin to saying no one who has money wants to live in Oakland because it has a reputation of high crime. But crime and poverty aren't spread out evenly. Go into Oakland and there is a lot of wealth in the hills like piedmont. That's like saying no wealthy people want to live in California because 18% live below the poverty line
https://uwba.org/wp-content/uploads/...o-Snapshot.pdf
yep, pretty close to the 20% you said kept wealthy people from living here.

As far as cost of homes, you should look more closely. I live in a 5200 sq ft home that I paid well under 500k I have 6 bedrooms,5 bathrooms, and 3 car garage. There are 3 in the neighborhood for sale now with similar price and size. The local high school is ranked number 5 in the state out of over 400. I see just as many high end cars here as I did living in Pleasanton, California so the wealth is here.

California has good appreciation in some areas, but not all. Atlanta has had some good appreciation too. I will give the nod to California. one house I looked at in Atlanta 3 years ago is now worth 250% more, so we have it too. That's a two way street. If you own a house now you are okay, but that appreciation also puts buying a house further out of reach for others. Many people in California said they may sell and move because their kids will move because they can't afford to buy.

Yes your California house will appreciate, but it won't come close to matching the numbers I calculated out. Yes that 1.5 million house may well go up in 30 years, but the number will be well exceeded by the way I described not to mention you will have enough to retire early well before that 30 years.

The problem is how many people can afford to buy the house to start with? That is the problem the op faces. Your scenario of buying a house for 500k doesn't exist in Pleasanton or a nice area like that. Try 900k for a 60's ranch style 1300 sq ft.
Everyone says move farther out, but the areas they suggest are no longer as nice as the metro areas. Moving inland a few hours into palm desert, that's no better than moving to another state. All the wonderful weather and amenities of living in Orange County are no longer there.

Property taxes are about the same in Georgia , so the only thing California has over Georgia is prop 13.
But keep in mind when you can get a house for 1/3 the cost, your taxes are 1/3 so the net is lower taxes.
In my county prop taxes at age 62 drop down to about 40% of what you pay because they no longer charge you for school taxes.

As far as my financial status, my net worth was about 600k when I left California 3 years ago. I bought real estate that was foreclosed on and rehabbed the properties . The lower cost of living allowed me to invest much more instead of paying to live. All those properties gained value and equity because they went from boarded up and empty to livable and rented out. I kept them all and took rental properties and reinvested. Long story short is I make more off the rentals than when I worked in California allowing me to retire. There is enough cash flow from the rentals where I can afford to pay a property manager to handle everything. I spend only an hour or two a month dealing with it.

I can't really argue the 90 percent with you. If people are content paying what they pay to live in California, I have no problem . For me I looked at what I do in life and 90 percent of what I did in California I do here.
As I mentioned the wealth difference living in a lower col area allows me to visit California whenever I feel like it. It also allowed me to retire early and travel anywhere else besides California.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

N Many people in California said they may sell and move because their kids will move because they can't afford to buy..

That is a problem more and more will face and many will move so their children can do better, even if they love CA, as family should come first.

[Brandon Graves]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Yeah, you can't afford a home in OC that you'd like. Maybe Temecula? Or (gasp) Hemet? You don't have to leave Southern California to find more affordable real estate than Southern Orange County. The beach is a lot closer to communities in Riverside County than it is to Phoenix or Las Vegas.

Banning, Beaumont, Calimesa, Desert Hot Springs, Indio, Cathedral City, Coachella, San Jacinto, Perris, Moreno Valley, Jurupa Valley, Blythe.

Just naming some more cities in Riverside County that are more (or a lot more) affordable.