Almost Half Of California Driver’s Licenses Went To Illegal Immigrants In 2015 (Los Angeles: crime rates, employment)

[Tulemutt]

What Sleepy said ^^^

Bunch of y'all need to stop confusing the reporting of true facts / factors - uh, with support.

[Darrett]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You mean the class of American citizens who hire these illegals? The same class of taxpayers who annually misreport income costing the nation between $100 billion and sometimes up to $300 billion in a year? Which, by the way, is WAY more than illegals cost national, state, and local governments combined?

If you are so concerned about this, why not learn about how and why so many employers refuse to use the E-Verify system to determine if their employment prospects are legal or illegal - and take your concerns to your congressperson to lobby for better legislation to support the E-Verify opportunity to reduce illegal immigration at its source: the American employers. Without their abuse of the system and avoidance of responsibilities for the expense you are complaining about - well, illegals wouldn't even bother coming across the borders for the most part.

As another poster summarized so well:

When you refer to that "class", you mean the middle class, because that's what bankers, software developers, etc. are part of. This is the group that gets hit hardest by illegal immigration, as they're being pressed by both sides. The upper class benefits through paying lower wages.

I have absolutely no issue with stricter employment verification methods, but that needs to be combined with border enforcement, as you're never going to eliminate cash businesses paying under the table.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Darrett

When you refer to that "class", you mean the middle class, because that's what bankers, software developers, etc. are part of. This is the group that gets hit hardest by illegal immigration, as they're being pressed by both sides. The upper class benefits through paying lower wages.

I have absolutely no issue with stricter employment verification methods, but that needs to be combined with border enforcement, as you're never going to eliminate cash businesses paying under the table.

No. The middle class is not the hardest hit by illegals. Their jobs aren't threatened and their pocketbooks aren't either. As I said before, bogus tax income reporting by legal citizens costs this country $100 - $300 billion a year - multiples more than illegals cost by any metric.

Of course border enforcement is important. But illegal border crossings are way down in recent years to the point of negative net in-flow as both access-denial has improved, deportation increased, and the double-whammy of our recession and drought having reduced jobs for illegals while the Mexican economy has improved. The greatest number of illegals now entering are those who arrive legally but overstay their visas.

[Darrett]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

No. The middle class is not the hardest hit by illegals. Their jobs aren't threatened and their pocketbooks aren't either. As I said before, bogus tax income reporting by legal citizens costs this country $100 - $300 billion a year - multiples more than illegals cost by any metric.

Of course border enforcement is important. But illegal border crossings are way down in recent years to the point of negative net in-flow as both access-denial has improved, deportation increased, and the double-whammy of our recession and drought having reduced jobs for illegals while the Mexican economy has improved. The greatest number of illegals now entering are those who arrive legally but overstay their visas.

And your assertion is that it's the middle class who is falsifying income by... what, modifying their W-2s? It's not likely.

Even if that were the case, it has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. If you have a different issue that needs to be addressed, there is still an issue with illegal immigration in this state that needs to be solved.

You assert that the middle class isn't affected by illegal immigration. I disagree. The middle class is heavily affected, particularly blue collar middle class, as they're not only seeing job losses but pay a large portion of taxes that provide benefits for illegal immigrants as well as those displaced by illegal immigrants.

The problem isn't as simple as border security or e-verify alone, but it needs to be addressed. Sticking your head in the sand and saying "but there's another problem over there!" is a ridiculous position to have.

[Madruga]

Adam Carolla discusses the detrimental affects of illegal immigrants in Los Angeles.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Darrett

And your assertion is that it's the middle class who is falsifying income by... what, modifying their W-2s? It's not likely.

Even if that were the case, it has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. If you have a different issue that needs to be addressed, there is still an issue with illegal immigration in this state that needs to be solved.

You assert that the middle class isn't affected by illegal immigration. I disagree. The middle class is heavily affected, particularly blue collar middle class, as they're not only seeing job losses but pay a large portion of taxes that provide benefits for illegal immigrants as well as those displaced by illegal immigrants.

The problem isn't as simple as border security or e-verify alone, but it needs to be addressed. Sticking your head in the sand and saying "but there's another problem over there!" is a ridiculous position to have.

Hi there Darret. No. It's not MY assertion that the middle class is falsifying income. It is factual knowledge reported by the IRS and other government and highly credible, non-governmental, economics research sources. It's so commonly known and credibly reported I won't bother to provide links. Any google search on the subject will provide you all the verification you could ask for. It's also definitely not limited to the middle class. What it IS limited to is: people who earn enough money to be faced with paying taxes. Which takes us pretty much out of the realm of poor, struggling minimum wage workers whose contribution levels to government revenue is zip. Right?

And while we are tangentially supporting my previous observations, note that most illegals (you can look this up as well, easily found verifications) DO pay taxes through their false I.D. facilitated employments, including Social Security, for which payroll deductions they receive no SS benefits at retirement or deduction refunds. The money they thus contribute to the tax coffers ends up being billions $$ annually left in the funds that support citizens' benefits. As I said, look it up. There's quite a bit of offsetting of costs going on that AM radio doesn't bring into their narrative.

There's nothing "head in the sand" about researching truth, learning, rationally analyzing, and pointing out clear prioritizations. If people in this country are upset about the money that illegals cost us, then it makes sense they should be more upset about 3x, 4x, 10x the money we cost ourselves by being a nation of natural born, citizen cheats. No?

It's not a question of illegals being accepted let alone being embraced. I don't. It's, well, a question of stupidity. Wading through $10 bills to anguish looking after a nickel dropped.

[sourdough]

They pay a dollar with one hand and get paid many dollars for their dependents…
How Illegals Pay Billions in Taxes and Reap Rewards | The Fiscal Times
Neat trick!
And they do get refunds….
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/tax...al-immigrants/
https://www.irs.gov/uac/Ten-Facts-ab...ild-Tax-Credit

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sourdough

They pay a dollar with one hand and get paid many dollars for their dependents…
How Illegals Pay Billions in Taxes and Reap Rewards | The Fiscal Times
Neat trick!

Yes. And no. Sorta.

Understand your reference source is funded by a conservative bias that advocates actively against illegal immigration. Which is fine, if the reporting is balanced I have no problem with them presenting their position as long as it is disclosed (which they don't). That said, you can find other, better sources that address the same issue with more comprehensive study.

As for the benefits you refer to, they are received for their US citizen children. Do you suggest the kids aren't or shouldn't be citizens by virtue of birthright? Write your congressperson. Personally speaking, I'm not in favor of birthright citizenship. Period. Regardless if the parents are illegals or born citizens themselves. And yes, by that I mean you and I, as well. I favor "earned citizenship". Under my plan, children of citizens could also receive benefits through citizen parents. But adults should, again in my opinion, commit to some level of service to the nation to earn their place here. Children of citizens would get priority to earn their own citizenship, in my plan. But no one gets benefits without earning their place. There's no good reason to provide benefits of America to people who are cheats in the system, of which we have ten's of millions of citizen cheaters and criminals. I'd rather bring in fresh faces who are motivated to live by American principles and opportunities.

Until such might ever occur (never), birthright citizenship is the reality and those kids born here to illegal parents are entitled to the support they receive. And if you want to argue that it's their parents who control the money and thereby get the benefit, I would suggest you look up how much aid a family can get for a minor child, and tally that against costs for a family to survive.

[sourdough]

Bottom line, illegals get more back than they put in. Why else would they be here. What a county.:
During 2007, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reviewed 29 reports published over 15 years on the impact of unauthorized immigrants on the budgets of state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:[20]

State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs;
The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions;
The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants, although the impact is most likely modest, and;
Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...e_United_State

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Bottom line, illegals get more back than they put in. Why else would they be here. What a county.:

Bottom line is: yes, but not really so much. Not enough for any rational person to get their panties in a bunch over until we've addressed far greater, more costly problems first. It's called prioritization of threats and liabilites.