Bangor to Declare War? (Augusta, Rome: rental, living, cabins)

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Fact: Actually, Roxanne and her fellow travelers own less than half of what thy intend or step one of the goal of a 3,200,000 acre park.

Fact: The federal government has been unable to get Congress to seize all the watersheds in our nation. The Army Corps of Engineers is supposed to regulate and maintain only the NAVIGABLE channels to our harbors. Two days ago, on May 27, 2015, they simply wrote a new rule and erased the word "navigable", thereby seizing all of the waterways in our nation. Barack Hussein Obama and his 32 "czars" are ruling by fiat. They ignore Congress and even the courts. McConnell and Boehner are useless and don't know what to do about it because they may never have read the Constitution they swore to uphold and defend.

Fact: Roxanne has stepped out of the limelight to serve on the National Park Advisory Board. That is the group that sets priorities for land seizures. They could pick and choose which private lands they want to seize so they can actually get legal access to Roxanne's wood lot. Ask the people who used to live in the Cuyahoga Valley, the Susquehanna Valley and the Blue Ridge about land seizures.

By the way, I used to be the Training Director of the Maine Professional Guides Assoiation.

See how you if you change the facts and move the goalposts you can fritter up just about anything you want for argument? The discussions started out at 150,000 acres and went back to a now-dead proposal for a 3.2 million acre park idea. "Barack Hussein Obama". How you deflect from the conversation at hand, by implying the president of the U.S. is somehow related to Islam, blah blah blah. You got no credibility, and just enough factual knowledge riddled with conspiracy theory. By the way, I was a Master Maine Guide back in the early '80's hunting (well, that's really before anyone was called Master except Wayne Bosowicz, which he called himself), fishing, canoeing and whitewater, and a Forester. Also had a 100 Ton USCG ticket (vessel Master). Boy THAT was a 70-hour or better work week. None of that means anything to the discussion as to whether a National Park would be a good thing or a bad thing, in reality, which is sorely lacking here, for the Katahdin and outlying regions.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

kk, so they are looking at a national park measuring 150k acres, much much more resonable than this 3.2 million acre plan.


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[Northern Maine Land Man]

The Northern Forest Lands Study recommends a 3.2 million acre park. RESTORE The North Woods enthusiastically supports that. Numerous other environmental groups are working toward that goal from many different directions. The Environmental Grantmakers Association is pushing hard for bigger government and less freedom all over the country. We are more vulnerable than some areas because we have fewer votes. The Bangor City Council knows that very well. They have piled on with all the above named groups to stifle our freedom and economy up here. It's like playing Whack A Mole.

They have plenty of money because Eric Holder misappropriated billions from the BP Gulf of Mexico settlement and doled it out to take land out of private hands. That money was supposed to go to Gulf states and Gulf businesses to compensate them for losses. One fact that is hidden from the public is that Roxanne does not own the 150,000 acres she said she would "donate". Much of that land is not for sale, but we know that it can be seized by the federal government, Just ask the people forced out of the Cuyahoga Valley, the Susquehanna Valley, the Shenedoah Valley and the Blue Ridge.

There is not enough compensation to cure the heartbreak of those generations of people who lost their homes, farms and heritage. To refer back to the subject of this thread; that's what the Bangor City Council wants for us.

[Maineac]

None of which comes close to remotely, factually, apolitically, without innuendo, speculation, misinformation, ad hominem attack and deflection, addressing the two ridiculously simple questions:
1.) What would happen if a 75,000 acre National Park and 75,000 acre National Forest, were ultimate put in place from a regional economic perspective?
2.) What will happen if a 75,000 acre NP (etc.) is NOT set up in the Katahdin Region? The "do nothing" approach?

But politics, Islamic accusations, "Cuyahoga Valley" et. al malarkey just won't allow the question to be answered honestly or competently, will it? So what thinking Mainers who don't subscribe to a socialist view nor corporate facist view of reality, and tend to be middle of the road and don't hate the concept of liberal thinking nor despise the concept of lower taxes, privacy and smaller government, what do these Mainers do? Just give up and agree to a 3.2 million acre park (which is no longer on the table), or listen to far right drivel and goosestep to the propaganda from the other side of the spectrum, simply repeating the catch phrases fed them?

I haven't seen the independent economic data either way. I still don't know the answer. What I do know is I don't jump on a bandwagon led with obviously politically driven opinion - pure opinion garnered from the internet, ALEC and other sources, some of whom are only interested in the reallocation of wealth (realistically, to their most vocal supporter's detriment) up the economic ladder. It should be interesting to see what happens. Like I've said, we could've flooded Big Ambejackmockemus Falls in 1984, made GNN over a billion dollars, and have nothing of the West Branch left, with China or Spain owning the dam and all the power being sold to out of state interests. Maine's resources flowing out of State. Let's put a Canadian gold mine on Bald Mountain and trash the entire watershed so the money can flow out of State. Let's carve a zero access highway from Canada to Canada, visible from space - "that's good business." But God forbid someone wants to preserve a part of Maine appended to Baxter State park.

I still have no idea how I'd vote if it came to vote tomorrow. I've argued against the park from a TGTL and economic perspective. I still can't argue for a park, but not because of anyone's constant misinformation and political drumming.

[Revi]

Forget about the mills. They aren't coming back, no matter how sweet of a deal they get here. There is no need to turn our resources into paper anyway. There are lots of things you can use low grade wood for, like pellets.

What we need is an economy. We are going to have to figure it out, and tourism is one of the things that keeps the coast going. Maybe we can figure it out around here.

[Maineac]

"How sweet a deal"?? As long as they can buy a mill for $1.00, suck $40mil out of the taxpayers of Maine courtesy of the current administration, to be turned over to corporate shareholders, then close up shop and laugh at our stupidity, they'll keep coming in the guise of "saving" the Katahdin Region.

[IHeartMaine]

The Northern Maine local yokels just want to ensure that they can keep using and abusing other people's land for free. When you think about it.......the current land situation is a form of recreational welfare. Someone else pays the taxes while others use the land for their personal enjoyment. No wonder the conservative "Northern Maine Land Man" wants to preserve his cake.

[Maineac]

Yeah, that ain't it either. Sure, there's a vociferous contingent of snow mobilers that want their trails to remain open, but the reality is people are confused by the possibility of the Federal Government having an overbearing role versus the obvious total lack of economy up there right now. While there is a "recreational welfare" contingency, and they can be loud, and I can't blame them when traditions are uprooted, it ain't their land. Heck, the E/W highway proposal could divert the trails dozens of miles in any direction from where they currently exist. A lot of it is simply spoon fed propaganda from both ends of the political spectrum.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

hey, i would be pissed if the family cabin was bought over to make a national park, my home i wouldnt care to much, but you dont touch family heirlooms, be it a watch, a very very old knife, or even land. After all, didnt many people immigrant so they could own their OWN land not the goverments land?

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by IHeartMaine

The Northern Maine local yokels just want to ensure that they can keep using and abusing other people's land for free. When you think about it.......the current land situation is a form of recreational welfare. Someone else pays the taxes while others use the land for their personal enjoyment. No wonder the conservative "Northern Maine Land Man" wants to preserve his cake.

Wow! I have no words for that except you must be from away. I guess I do have words! I don't think you grew up in Maine however, not that it matters, but you don't understand the relationship between the folks and their values.
Matt Libby Jr wasn't really impressed when he guided Quimby through her land that she had purchased years earlier. Hadn't stepped foot on it, but that is her right. Too bad for the poor folk who had leases that were canceled and their cabin had to be burned or moved. Yeah, it left a bitter taste in a lot of the freeloader's mouths.

Here Comes The Son - Down East