Afro american officials and afro american crime (Baltimore, Cumberland: attorney, home)

[MyGoldenLife]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

As best I can figure, your 'answer' is an attempt to avoid the question entirely by stating "most crimes" committed would be outside "my community" and inflicted on other drug dealers/users. Playing the percentage game on who the next victim is does not reassure me and as a law-abiding member of society I refuse to be put at risk unnecessarily by these people. Random break-ins, armed robberies, muggings, car thefts, and sometimes worse are committed every day by drug addicted (and other) criminals who could still be behind bars.

It happens in my town all the time. It happened in my neighborhood a 2 summers ago. I guess I should go tell my neighbors who had their house broken into, the cabbie who was robbed at gun point, and the elderly women who was assaulted in her home that some avatar on the internet assured me this early release criminal was unlikely by numbers to harm them? And that in most cases, his crimes would be committed against those in his "own community?" Victims don't really care about these %s when they are the ones harmed.

Come off the balloon metaphors and return to earth. You can be 100% correct that the CJ system can't solve the problems of drug addiction and related crime by itself, and still be wrong that once a criminal takes the plunge into victimizing others, the rest of us are better off with that person out of circulation for as long as the law allows.

I will gladly pay more taxes for more jails. As mentioned, my tax dollars are going to support these individuals whether it is through public assistance or incarceration costs. I will choose the later and decrease the risk another person is made into a victim.

We already have a large prison industrial complex. Private and all. That's not the answer. When it comes to drugs it should be legalized. Legalize it ~ you take away the criminal element of it. Taking away the criminal element of the sale and use of drugs would turn the tide on drug related crimes.

Be advised, in addition, that the majority of drug related crime in terms of selling and usage is equal among Americans of African and European heritage.
As a matter of fact the Opiod addiction sits directly in the lap of communities who are non minority.

What kinds of things would you suggest for dealing with these complexities?

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife

What are we to do when they are released? Black or White? Prison typically doesn't "reform" so we keep an open door policy of recidivism.....

Consider the recidivism rates are extremely high. How much can we afford to continue to pay to house criminals (black or white)?

We watch them like hawks with a parole and probation system, and throw them back in if they can't abide by the social contract.

Nobody likes to pay taxes. But one the primary functions of government is to enforce the social contract, and protect the law-abiding from those that would do us harm. There are some things government can, and should, cut corners on cost to achieve, criminal justice isn't one of them, IMO.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife

We already have a large prison industrial complex. Private and all. That's not the answer. When it comes to drugs it should be legalized. Legalize it ~ you take away the criminal element of it. Taking away the criminal element of the sale and use of drugs would turn the tide on drug related crimes.

Be advised, in addition, that the majority of drug related crime in terms of selling and usage is equal among Americans of African and European heritage.
As a matter of fact the Opiod addiction sits directly in the lap of communities who are non minority.

What kinds of things would you suggest for dealing with these complexities?

I'd suggest you go back and read pg.1 of the thread to understand the flow of this conversation. The specific issues I am addressing is whether or not convicted criminals should serve their full sentence. It is unrelated to race, and includes crimes beyond drug crimes.

I have already stated I am not referring to neutral/self-harm drug crimes in my comments and agree that this part of the system is not functioning properly and taking away resources for bigger problems.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

As best I can figure, your 'answer' is an attempt to avoid the question entirely...

Nope. But I am trying to isolate the drug business related crime from the rest.
Figure a way to actually do that and most of the rest of the complaint goes away as well.

You can be 100% correct that the CJ system can't solve the problems of drug addiction...

F! addiction. That's easy. GIVE them the dope and let the users all kill themselves.

The problem is the money behind the drug business.
Gt the money out of the equation and almost all of the other problems go with it.

...will gladly pay more taxes for more jails.

I won't.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MrRational

Nope. But I am trying to isolate the drug business related crime from the rest.
Figure a way to actually do that and most of the rest of the complaint goes away as well.


F! addiction. That's easy. GIVE them the dope and let the users all kill themselves.

The problem is the money behind the drug business.
Gt the money out of the equation and almost all of the other problems go with it.

I won't.

Lol, you are funny guy.

Well, I am not quite yet to the point of GIVING away free dope, and I certainly don't want to see people die. I carry Narcan for my job, and because I believe that while you can't stop a person from abusing drugs, you can save their life, at least for awhile.

You make a lot of good points, we agree on many of them. I just don't feel that drug use should be an exception to how society views and treats crimes against person or property. A mitigating factor perhaps, but not an exception that allows us to isolate this group as a stand-alone entity who are a lesser recidivism threat than non-drug abusing criminals.

What is your opinion on drug courts? One of my buddies up here is a driving force behind our recently started one and speaks highly of them.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I just don't feel that drug use should be an (official) exception to how society views and treats crimes against person or property.
A mitigating factor perhaps, but...

The issue is in the perpetrators motivations for the crimes being committed...
and how much of that is rooted in other public policies that limit options available to them.

At the property crime level and some lower level assaults plus of course almost all prostitution...
how much of that is NOT directly related to users seeking funds to pay for their dope?

Some of these people might want to quit. OK help them.
As to the rest don't make it difficult or expensive to get their dope.

At the felony assault and up through murder charge levels...
how much of that is NOT directly related to sellers seeking to make/defend their market?

If we aren't going to have the collective spines required to fix the legality issues head on...
re-legalize the natural state AG products and re-medicalize the pharmaceuticals...
then we have only ourselves to blame for the fallout... the crime being complained about.

What is your opinion on drug courts?

I think they're a farce.

Anyone who has enough going on in their life otherwise to do well in them (family, school, jobs)
is just as likely to get past a minor use issue without them. As to those with or close to having
a more substantial use issue... residential cold turkey interventions and then back on the horse.

And while it may sound harsh... I really and truly have NO ISSUE with dope fiends killing themselves
and clearing that bother and expense from the public purse. Write them off.

The CRIME problems to focus on are NOT done by users.

[MyGoldenLife]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

We watch them like hawks with a parole and probation system, and throw them back in if they can't abide by the social contract.

Nobody likes to pay taxes. But one the primary functions of government is to enforce the social contract, and protect the law-abiding from those that would do us harm. There are some things government can, and should, cut corners on cost to achieve, criminal justice isn't one of them, IMO.

Well then that begs the question? Are White Politicians helping the crime in your communities? I don't see a difference in policing for matters such as this. There are some differences in terms of approaches (unlawful stops, searches etc.), but otherwise how well are White politicians fairing?

How come no one ever talks about the crime and drug usage in the White communities? You do know it exists yeah? One would think there is where your concern should be. Not somewhere where you don't live.

All of what you've opined sounds rather convenient the least of which is not "fishy."

[MyGoldenLife]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I'd suggest you go back and read pg.1 of the thread to understand the flow of this conversation. The specific issues I am addressing is whether or not convicted criminals should serve their full sentence. It is unrelated to race, and includes crimes beyond drug crimes.

I have already stated I am not referring to neutral/self-harm drug crimes in my comments and agree that this part of the system is not functioning properly and taking away resources for bigger problems.

I read it. I ask again, Are White officials and White crime doing any better than African American Officials and Crime?

I posed that question once (and reversed it for your consideration). Nothing, nada, zilch from YOU.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife

Well then that begs the question? Are White Politicians helping the crime in your communities? I don't see a difference in policing for matters such as this. There are some differences in terms of approaches (unlawful stops, searches etc.), but otherwise how well are White politicians fairing?

How come no one ever talks about the crime and drug usage in the White communities? You do know it exists yeah? One would think there is where your concern should be. Not somewhere where you don't live.

All of what you've opined sounds rather convenient the least of which is not "fishy."

I live in Cumberland, Maryland. Look it up. Plenty of white crime and white politicians unable to stop it. Drug and crime issues are where my concern is because it affects my community every day. The fact I am discussing drug related crime and prison sentences in a Baltimore forum under a thread title likely meant to fan racial flames is unfortunate, but I feel posters who come to the table with a good faith attitude can see past that and examine the substance of the issue and the arguments being made.

[MyGoldenLife]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I live in Cumberland, Maryland. Look it up. Plenty of white crime and white politicians unable to stop it. Drug and crime issues are where my concern is because it affects my community every day. The fact I am discussing drug related crime and prison sentences in a Baltimore forum under a thread title likely meant to fan racial flames is unfortunate, but I feel posters who come to the table with a good faith attitude can see past that and examine the substance of the issue and the arguments being made.

Well if the White politicians can't do much about the crime in White communities, why do you think majority Black communities in Baltimore can do any better? Pot meet kettle.......

"I" know there's crime. However, discussions like this would leave some to believe no one in White communities commits murder, domestic abuse, arson, stealing, patricide etc. Lucky for me, I'm not one of them.......(who would not believe)