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Old 04-21-2018, 06:03 PM
 
1,808 posts, read 3,190,193 times
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The way the incident unfolded, feels like something out of a final destination movie.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:11 PM
 
14,394 posts, read 11,235,091 times
Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Technically, what she did wasn't special. But as someone with flight anxiety and occasional panic attacks, I would find it hard to be calm down in that scenario, especially when there's a hole in the fuselage and a passenger sucked out.

What defines hero is debatable though.
I equate it to driving a car. When I was a student driver everything was new and nerve racking. I didn’t develop any muscle memory yet.

20 years later I had all the basics down, but that was driving 60 mph. One drive on the Autobahn at double the speed made me realize there was a new skill I had to learn.

Now compare that to a professional race car driver who is taught, and practices again and again until it is second nature. They are perfectly calm driving 200 mph in close proximity with other cars.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:14 PM
 
14,394 posts, read 11,235,091 times
Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brill View Post
The way the incident unfolded, feels like something out of a final destination movie.
Another one, not quite as severe, worth reading about is Air Canada 143, the Gimli Glider. Nothing like fuel exhaustion to ruin your day.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:42 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,537,464 times
Reputation: 7783
Default Fifth uncontainted engine failure in less than three years

This latest incident is actually the fifth uncontainted engine failure in less than three years.
  1. British Airways Flight 2276: a Boeing 777-200ER flying from Las Vegas to London in 2015 suffered an uncontained engine failure on its #1 GE90 engine during takeoff, resulting in a large fire on its port side. The aircraft successfully aborted takeoff and the plane was evacuated with no fatalities
  2. Southwest Airlines Flight 3472: a Boeing 737-700 flying from New Orleans to Orlando in 2016 suffered an uncontained engine failure on its #1 engine during climb resulting in a puncture to left side of the fuselage causing a loss of cabin pressure and damage to the wing and empennage. The aircraft diverted to Pensacola International Airport, FL for a safe landing on runway 17 about 20 minutes later without further incident. There were no injuries.
  3. American Airlines Flight 383: a Boeing 767-300ER flying from Chicago to Miami in 2016 suffered an uncontained engine failure on its #2 engine during takeoff resulting in a large fire which destroyed the outer right wing. The aircraft aborted takeoff and was evacuated with 21 minor injuries, but no fatalities.
  4. Air France Flight 66: an Airbus A380, registration F-HPJE performing flight from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to Los Angeles, CA (USA), was enroute at FL370 about 200nm southeast of Nuuk (Greenland) when it suffered a catastrophic engine failure in 2017. The crew descended the aircraft to FL310 and diverted to Goose Bay, NL (Canada) for a safe landing about 2 hours later.
  5. Southwest Airlines Flight 1380: a Boeing 737-700 flying from New York to Dallas in 2018 suffered an uncontained engine failure on its #1 engine during flight, damaging the fuselage and resulting in a window failing explosively. The aircraft landed safely in Philadelphia with some minor injuries and one reported fatality.
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Old 04-21-2018, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,714,225 times
Reputation: 2434
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
I equate it to driving a car. When I was a student driver everything was new and nerve racking. I didn’t develop any muscle memory yet.

20 years later I had all the basics down, but that was driving 60 mph. One drive on the Autobahn at double the speed made me realize there was a new skill I had to learn.

Now compare that to a professional race car driver who is taught, and practices again and again until it is second nature. They are perfectly calm driving 200 mph in close proximity with other cars.
When I drive, I don't believe it's likely to crash soon.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Odessa, FL
2,218 posts, read 4,369,913 times
Reputation: 2942
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I would say sitting before the engine or the last few rows of the place would be the safer bet from incidents like this. Thankfully neither of these planes ended up with a giant gaping hole in the fuselage
You mean like this giant gaping hole?



(Photo is in the public domain)
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:34 AM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,537,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
You mean like this giant gaping hole?
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded that the accident on the Aloha Airlines B737 was caused by metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion. The aircraft was 19 years old and operated in a coastal environment, with exposure to salt and humidity. During an interview, passenger Gayle Yamamoto told investigators that she had noticed a crack in the fuselage upon boarding, but did not notify anyone.

For the aircraft production number 292 (B-737) and after (the aircraft in the accident was production line number 152), an additional outer layer of skin or doubler sheet at the lap joint of the fuselage was added.

=================================
Of the oldest Southwest Airlines B737-700s starting with line #1 (21.2 years old) that is the third one to have a major failure
  1. 1 N707SA
  2. 2 N708SW
  3. 3 N709SW
  4. 4 N700GS
  5. 6 N701GS
  6. 12 N703SW
  7. 14 N799SW
  8. 15 N704SW
  9. 20 N705SW
  10. 24 N706SW
  11. 34 N710SW
  12. 38 N711HK
  13. 41 N798SW
  14. 53 N712SW
  15. 54 N713SW
  16. 61 N714CB
  17. 62 N715SW
  18. 64 N716SW
  19. 70 N717SA
  20. 71 N718SW
  21. 82 N719SW
  22. 83 N270WN
  23. 109 N271LV
  24. 121 N720WN
  25. 144 N739GB
  26. 155 N740SW
  27. 157 N741SA
  28. 172 N742SW
  29. 175 N743SW
  30. 199 N723SW
  31. 201 N724SW
  32. 203 N7830A
  33. 208 N725SW
  34. 213 N726SW
  35. 221 N7816B
  36. 232 N744SW
  37. 237 N745SW
  38. 274 N727SW
  39. 276 N728SW
  40. 278 N729SW
  41. 284 N730SW
  42. 299 N746SW
  43. 306 N747SA
  44. 318 N731SA
  45. 319 N732SW
  46. 320 N733SA
  47. 324 N734SA
  48. 331 N748SW
  49. 343 N749SW
  50. 354 N735SA
  51. 357 N736SA
  52. 358 N737JW
  53. 360 N738CB
  54. 366 N750SA
  55. 373 N751SW
  56. 387 N752SW
  57. 396 N7836A
  58. 400 N753SW 22 July 2013. Collapse of its front landing gear while landing at LaGuardia, injuring 9 people (written off)
  59. 416 N754SW
  60. 417 N7818L
  61. 419 N755SA
  62. 422 N756SA
  63. 425 N757LV
  64. 437 N758SW
  65. 448 N759GS
  66. 468 N760SW
  67. 495 N761RR
  68. 512 N762SW
  69. 520 N763SW
  70. 521 N764SW
  71. 525 N765SW
  72. 532 N560WN
  73. 537 N766SW - 27 August 2016, uncontained engine failure (returned to active service)
  74. 541 N767SW
  75. 580 N768SW
  76. 592 N769SW
  77. 595 N770SA
  78. 599 N771SA
  79. 601 N772SW - 17 April 2018 uncontained engine failure (in storage during investigation)
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Retired
890 posts, read 882,299 times
Reputation: 1262
Fatigue cannot be inspected. All that can be inspected, is to see if fatigue cracks have already started in the part. The manufacturer, Safran/GE, has miscalculated the fatigue life of the titanium blades. The planned life of the blades must be reduced, and new blades should replace older blades. Inspection of parts is not adequate to insure safety, and the FAA is a major fail, putting corporate profits ahead of human safety. The FAA is doing what GE/Safran wants, not what is required.

The fan containment ring failed. The FAA should force a redesign. Oh, that would cost GE money, so won't happen.

Last edited by Graywhiskers; 04-23-2018 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graywhiskers View Post
Fatigue cannot be inspected. All that can be inspected, is to see if fatigue cracks have already started in the part. The manufacturer, Safran/GE, has miscalculated the fatigue life of the titanium blades. The planned life of the blades must be reduced, and new blades should replace older blades. Inspection of parts is not adequate to insure safety, and the FAA is a major fail, putting corporate profits ahead of human safety. The FAA is doing what GE/Safran wants, not what is required.

The fan containment ring failed. The FAA should force a redesign. Oh, that would cost GE money, so won't happen.
Unlikely. There have been large numbers of these fans run to end of life without problems. There have been a few failures but the vast majority make it through to the replacement point. That would suggest there is also a random failure mechanism driven by an unknown cause. These things will never be perfect. Birds will assure some failures. But the rate is low enough to live with.

It might also be good to note that SW has been cancelling some flights to get engines inspected. Probably running down and checking all the ones with high cycles on them.

Last edited by lvmensch; 04-23-2018 at 09:46 AM..
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Retired
890 posts, read 882,299 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Unlikely. There have been large numbers of these fans run to end of life without problems. There have been a few failures but the vast majority make it through to the replacement point. That would suggest there is also a random failure mechanism driven by an unknown cause. These things will never be perfect. Birds will assure some failures. But the rate is low enough to live with.

It might also be good to note that SW has been cancelling some flights to get engines inspected. Probably running down and checking all the ones with high cycles on them.
No. Material properties are statistical. The fact many engines meet the desired life is irrelevant. Usually aircraft engine parts are designed to minus 3 sigma reliability. There should be no failures. The few failures is the problem. Note other manufacturers do not have this problem. There is now physical proof that the fan blades should have an earlier retirement life.

Bird strikes are a problem, but this failure was not due to a bird strike.

The rate is not low enough to live with, since this catastrophic failure was entirely preventable if new fan blades had been installed on the engine.
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