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And, if you have 1 and 2 enter at the same time, 1 going straight, 2 going right. then 4 enters going straight, and 1 and 4 wind up at position 5 at the same time.. You have a situation where 1 is turning, 4 is going straight. (Consider that 1, 3, 5 and 7 are exit points as well)
This works fine as long as it works. 4 should have waited for 1 to pass before entering the roundabout. But.. Things happen. We'll go with the missed shift.. 4 entered when it was clear, 1 and 2 entered at the same time. 1 was going at the speed limit, due to 4's missed shift, they wind up side by side. 2 exited at position 3 with no issues. But, now we're in a position where 1 is turning right where 4 is going straight. They are going to collide.
Who's at fault in that situation? I would guess that 1 is. He didn't pass 4, but being side by side with him.. I'm guessing he should have slowed to not get in that position?
No really, it is as simple as the picture I provided. Your scenario of a missed shift or someone failing to yield or whatever is no different than if it was a traditional intersection and someone turning right didn't yield to cross traffic.
That scenario breaks the rule. If you want to take the first exit you must enter on the outside lane.
When going straight through the outside lane is a straight or right turn only lane. Only the inside lane can continue to the left. Inside lane can exit at any time directly from the inside lane aside from that first right. As the outside lane is forced to exit at any other time and incoming traffic must yield.
If you look at the op picture and follow the dotted lines you can see the outside lane isn’t a circle at all, but 4 individual curved segments that must exit at the straights. That’s what allows the inside lane to exit as well at the straight and any exit thereafter, including that first right if you loop around once.
The problem is that people enter from the other sides too. Someone coming from the side 90 degrees from you and goes straight through in the outer lane is going to conflict with you in the inner lane if you want to exit at the next turn when they want to go straight. In the real world people make up their own rules, you know.
The picture shows that the outer lane can go through. If it isn't supposed to then they should have broken the line between each turn off.
The problem is that people enter from the other sides too. Someone coming from the side 90 degrees from you and goes straight through in the outer lane is going to conflict with you in the inner lane if you want to exit at the next turn when they want to go straight. In the real world people make up their own rules, you know.
Again, sure people make up their own rules or just outright choose to disobey some. But the same applies to any type of intersection. For instance some people will use a right turn only lane of a traditional intersection to jump out in front of the straight lanes. Is that the intersection's fault?
And, if you have 1 and 2 enter at the same time, 1 going straight, 2 going right. then 4 enters going straight, and 1 and 4 wind up at position 5 at the same time.. You have a situation where 1 is turning, 4 is going straight. (Consider that 1, 3, 5 and 7 are exit points as well)
This works fine as long as it works. 4 should have waited for 1 to pass before entering the roundabout. But.. Things happen. We'll go with the missed shift.. 4 entered when it was clear, 1 and 2 entered at the same time. 1 was going at the speed limit, due to 4's missed shift, they wind up side by side. 2 exited at position 3 with no issues. But, now we're in a position where 1 is turning right where 4 is going straight. They are going to collide.
Who's at fault in that situation? I would guess that 1 is. He didn't pass 4, but being side by side with him.. I'm guessing he should have slowed to not get in that position?
4 is at fault because he didn't yield the right of way. Based on what you said, 1 and 2 entered at the same time, there's no possible way it was clear when 4 entered. You're typically going 15 mph in these things. IF someone pulls out when its clear and somehow misses a shift, there is plenty of time to stop. You're really making it a lot harder than it is. Seriously, each lane allow you to go straight. Only the left lanes allow left turns. Only the right lanes allow right turns. Just like when you approach a stoplight with multiple lanes, you plan before you get there what lane you need to be in to do what. A multilane roundabout is exactly the same.
I work in Carmel, Indiana, the roundabout capital of the US. There are somewhere around 120 roundabouts in this city with at least 3 more under construction right now. I LOVE roundabouts. I go through 10 on my 10 mile drive to work, 7 of which are multilane and they work just fine. 6 of them replaced stoplights and it has cut my commute time from 35 minutes to 23-25 minutes. The only thing that keeps it from being less than 20 minutes is one stoplight that creates a huge backup. The roundabouts that used to be stoplights and had backups now allow you to just breeze through.
The problem is that people enter from the other sides too. Someone coming from the side 90 degrees from you and goes straight through in the outer lane is going to conflict with you in the inner lane if you want to exit at the next turn when they want to go straight. In the real world people make up their own rules, you know.
The picture shows that the outer lane can go through. If it isn't supposed to then they should have broken the line between each turn off.
But you can't go left from the outer lane! It really isn't that hard. Do you pull up to a multilane stoplight and assume you'll be able to go left from the right most lane? Of course not. So why would you at a roundabout?
Again, sure people make up their own rules or just outright choose to disobey some. But the same applies to any type of intersection. For instance some people will use a right turn only lane of a traditional intersection to jump out in front of the straight lanes. Is that the intersection's fault?
You're talking about people wilfully breaking the law. The problem with the multi lane roundabout isn't people breaking the law. It's that they require training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, quick thinking, etc. It's totally different.
If a part of a roadway requires training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, and quick thinking just to be used normally, yes that is the fault of the roundabout
You're talking about people wilfully breaking the law. The problem with the multi lane roundabout isn't people breaking the law. It's that they require training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, quick thinking, etc. It's totally different.
If a part of a roadway requires training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, and quick thinking just to be used normally, yes that is the fault of the roundabout
This plus knowing what a yield sign means is literally the only understanding required to know how to enter a roundabout.
No special training or any other nonsense. If you don't understand lane markings or a yield sign you should not have a license.
In order to use it incorrectly you must cross a solid white line or fail to yield. Both are illegal.
You're talking about people wilfully breaking the law. The problem with the multi lane roundabout isn't people breaking the law. It's that they require training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, quick thinking, etc. It's totally different.
If a part of a roadway requires training, knowledge, understanding, forethought, and quick thinking just to be used normally, yes that is the fault of the roundabout
It doesn't require any more forethought than approaching a normal signalized intersection does. There are lane markings and signs before you reach the roundabout telling you what each lane, just like at a signalized intersection.
But you can't go left from the outer lane! It really isn't that hard. Do you pull up to a multilane stoplight and assume you'll be able to go left from the right most lane? Of course not. So why would you at a roundabout?
First of all, I do understand how to do it. I'm talking about others who don't.
Second, it is not the same as turning left to many. So it would make sense that some aren't even thinking of it like it is a left turn. That's why it is confusing to them.
First of all, I do understand how to do it. I'm talking about others who don't.
Second, it is not the same as turning left to many. So it would make sense that some aren't even thinking of it like it is a left turn. That's why it is confusing to them.
Which is baffling. Does having a mound in the middle(that outright prevents t-bone intersection crashes) somehow make it not an intersection?
There are more sideswipes in roundabouts I'm sure. But they do cut down the more deadly t-bones.
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