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I was in the car manufacturing business for almost 30 years. It is true that there was a time when first year models had a large number of concerns. Thanks to computer technology that is no longer the case. Of course, there are duds that come along with any new model, but the overwhelming % of new models are as reliable as anything out there. You have to remember that cars are assembled to very close tolerances today. What used to be acceptable 5 years ago just won’t get it today, never mind the way it used to be 25 years ago.
Engine manufacturing tolerances are now measured in tiny microns, thus ensuring better fit and longer lasting components. Even assembly of the actual car body is light years ahead of how it used to be because computers can simulate assembly and snuff out problems before the vehicle ever gets to the production floor. All of this, plus a lot of auto manufacturers no longer shut down to retool for a new model. This used to take three months during which time any number of things would be missed, engineers incorrectly, or whatever all leasing to a poorly produced new model vehicle. Manufacturers have learned Honda’s secret new model change, which means as the last car of the preceding model year rolls down the line, the first car of the new model is right behind it.
As to your comment about parts that fail being fixed to be used at a later date, no way is that true. Every auto manufacturer is scared to death of incurring the cost of a recall for defective parts and they will scrap defective parts rather than fix them. Unless of course the fix brings the part back to the original level of safety, which rarely happens. Think about it, is it cheaper to pay for the labor to fix a part and risk failure, or use a new part that meets the specifications?
Ron just said what I was about to post. As technology has improved, along with computer aided manufacturing, cars have gotten better. Today, I would not be afraid to buy first year or last year of any model run.
This is ancient history. So probably you can safely ignore it.
I drove a VW bug and then a Karmann Ghia for a total of about 9 years. Loved those cars! So I was willing to take the leap of faith when VW came out with the Dasher, its first front-engine car. (Based on the Audi Fox, so there was a little history, though it was not great.)
That '74 Dasher was in the shop at least once a month. I stuck with it for six years . . . I was very young, I couldn't afford to trade it in. Nearly everything was covered by warranty, but the aggravation was major!
I always felt bad for the person who bought it after I traded it in. It was inevitably going to continue to be a problem car.
Never bought a VW again. In fact, I never bought a German car again until 2016. Thankfully, so far, so good!
FWIW, my 2008 Honda Accord (first year of the 8th generation, 2008-2012) was making an engine rattle at 72,000 miles. When the worst happened, the side airbags in it worked flawlessly, saving my mom's life.
My current 2011 Accord has ~116,500 miles on it and has very few problems, overall it's holding up extremely well for a car with its mileage. Consumer Reports rated the '08 Accord "average" and the '11 Accord "much better than average" on reliability.
I love 8th generation Accords to death, I'm a huge fan of the design. Even an '08 Accord is probably going to be a good car. But the '11-12 models are the best of the generation, if you're looking for that generation Accord I'd definitely get an '11-12 if you can afford it. '09-10 would be the second choice. However, if you can pick up an '08 for cheap, it's worth it. It's a far more modern design than the one it replaced. Just remember that the '08 isn't as reliable as the later years, but then again there are still lots of '08 Accords on the road, so it's still more reliable than most '08 cars.
My parents have had a 2001 Toyota Highlander and a 2003 Toyota Corolla. They both got well into the 200,000s miles with few mechanical issues. Both first year designs. So has my uncle's 2003 Honda Accord, another first year design. Haven't heard of any real problems with the '13 or '18 Accords, redesign years as well.
On the other hand, my mom had a 1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse and it was a POS, died at 137k miles. An old teacher had a '97 Dodge Caravan and it died at only 100k miles!
The rule is : Never buy a model of car that hasn't been around long enough for people to discover what was wrong with it.
This is pretty much what I go by as well.
If the model has seriously troubling problems the first year I personally would either move on to something else or give it a few years to make sure they have been resolved.
On a used car that has been driven a reasonably expected amount of miles (As opposed to really low miles) it's pretty doubtful that it's going to be more problematic due to being part of the first year run. Anything should have been addressed by the time it hits the used market.
I was in the car manufacturing business for almost 30 years. It is true that there was a time when first year models had a large number of concerns. Thanks to computer technology that is no longer the case. Of course, there are duds that come along with any new model, but the overwhelming % of new models are as reliable as anything out there. You have to remember that cars are assembled to very close tolerances today. What used to be acceptable 5 years ago just won’t get it today, never mind the way it used to be 25 years ago.
Engine manufacturing tolerances are now measured in tiny microns, thus ensuring better fit and longer lasting components. Even assembly of the actual car body is light years ahead of how it used to be because computers can simulate assembly and snuff out problems before the vehicle ever gets to the production floor. All of this, plus a lot of auto manufacturers no longer shut down to retool for a new model. This used to take three months during which time any number of things would be missed, engineers incorrectly, or whatever all leasing to a poorly produced new model vehicle. Manufacturers have learned Honda’s secret new model change, which means as the last car of the preceding model year rolls down the line, the first car of the new model is right behind it.
As to your comment about parts that fail being fixed to be used at a later date, no way is that true. Every auto manufacturer is scared to death of incurring the cost of a recall for defective parts and they will scrap defective parts rather than fix them. Unless of course the fix brings the part back to the original level of safety, which rarely happens. Think about it, is it cheaper to pay for the labor to fix a part and risk failure, or use a new part that meets the specifications?
Yep. Also, first model year doesn't mean all the parts were just engineered from scratch. In 2018, manufacturers have a standardized platform and a new model recycles all the engineering done for that platform. I have a first model year car. The transmission is a new design but the rest of the drive train has been around for a while. I had a few recalls for software updates that were done during routine oil changes. It's different sheet metal but there isn't much 'new' compared to the previous generation of that car.
I think this entire rule is a bit antiquated. New cars today, imo, should be fine even in model year one. If there are glitchy things from a quality control perspective, you should be able to take care of these things under warranty.
This notion that a 2018 Honda Accord is going to have a transmission failure at 36,500 miles, just outside of its warranty, because it is in its first year but a 2019 Accord will drive like a champion for 250,000 miles seems like a stretch.
FWIW, my 2008 Honda Accord (first year of the 8th generation, 2008-2012) was making an engine rattle at 72,000 miles. When the worst happened, the side airbags in it worked flawlessly, saving my mom's life.
My current 2011 Accord has ~116,500 miles on it and has very few problems, overall it's holding up extremely well for a car with its mileage. Consumer Reports rated the '08 Accord "average" and the '11 Accord "much better than average" on reliability.
I love 8th generation Accords to death, I'm a huge fan of the design. Even an '08 Accord is probably going to be a good car. But the '11-12 models are the best of the generation, if you're looking for that generation Accord I'd definitely get an '11-12 if you can afford it. '09-10 would be the second choice. However, if you can pick up an '08 for cheap, it's worth it. It's a far more modern design than the one it replaced. Just remember that the '08 isn't as reliable as the later years, but then again there are still lots of '08 Accords on the road, so it's still more reliable than most '08 cars.
My parents have had a 2001 Toyota Highlander and a 2003 Toyota Corolla. They both got well into the 200,000s miles with few mechanical issues. Both first year designs. So has my uncle's 2003 Honda Accord, another first year design. Haven't heard of any real problems with the '13 or '18 Accords, redesign years as well.
On the other hand, my mom had a 1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse and it was a POS, died at 137k miles. An old teacher had a '97 Dodge Caravan and it died at only 100k miles!
Yah i'd agree with this. Though I did have a 2003 accord that had 240k when I sold it, and when I checked the mycarfax on it it's still on the road with 280k or so about 2 years later. But that car did have a couple of problems when it was brand new (it was a family car beforehand, and the car came out of the factory with a bad transmission that was replaced before delivery, and it needed two oxygen sensors and a radio unit before 100k). But between 100k and 200k that car literally had nothing go wrong with it.
With new model year cars you honestly won't have any idea what the reliability will be. So you're shooting in the dark buying new (though having a warranty is nice and you can look at brand history). But even in brands with a good reputation you have certain model year and make cars with issues. For example Honda had tons of problems with the v6 models from roughly 2001-2005. Used cars you actually have the benefit of having information about the average reliability of the model year. But with used cars often don't know how well the car was treated by the previous owner.
I think with regards to the 2008-2012 model accords, the rear breaks on the 08-10 models were notoriously bad. I have an early model year 2010 TSX at the moment, and the rear breaks do need replacement much more often then it should (TSX is basically a slightly shorter Accord with leather that has breathing holes in it and a bigger anti sway bar, it shares many of the same components otherwise). I don't find it to be a huge deal because I just do the breaks myself, and the parts are pretty cheap on Amazon. But for someone who goes to the dealer or shop for everything that is a reliability issue if you have to replace breaks every 40k.
I think this entire rule is a bit antiquated. New cars today, imo, should be fine even in model year one. If there are glitchy things from a quality control perspective, you should be able to take care of these things under warranty.
This notion that a 2018 Honda Accord is going to have a transmission failure at 36,500 miles, just outside of its warranty, because it is in its first year but a 2019 Accord will drive like a champion for 250,000 miles seems like a stretch.
Not to that extent. But you're definitively more likely to have a problem with a 2018 Accord then you are with a 2020 are later Accord.
I think the transmissions on the new Accord will be fine, as the transmissions are basically carry over CVT's from the previous generation. What could be an issue is that is the first year that Honda has moved to turbo engines. Traditionally naturally aspirated engines have been more reliable then turbo ones, all other things being the same. Although many of the German automakers have perfected the turbo engine and made them very reliable.
New technology very often has teething issues. Part of the reason why Toyota is always on top of Consumer Reports reliability surveys is that they tend not to be on the cutting edge of technology. The new Camry still uses naturally aspirated engines. Although the transmission is a new 8 speed model.
Also new model cars are more reliable then ever when looking at just the power-train and transmission. But the complex electronic and infotainment systems that new cars have often are not. And think of how many new cars now have temperature adjustments/radio control and other things in the center touch screen. Some of it is because computer manufactures are not used to making components that work under stable temperature. Inside an automobile there are wide temperature swings (cars get very hot inside when left in the sun), which can cause some of the components inside to fail if they aren't designed right.
Sort of a thread hijack, but my question is related to the topic.
Does the general advice given here post mean I should NOT buy a new 2018 Honda Odyssey (new 5th generation with new 9-speed SBW transmission) or new 2017 or 2018 Toyota Sienna (still 3rd generation, but all new problematic 8-speed transmission)??
I don't want to buy used though, and I want an Odyssey or Sienna. Am I stuck until 2019 without a car?? I need a new car since my current Sienna is beyond repair.
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