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I wonder if car designers really get the freedom to design cool cars or are they obligated to design cars that sell.
Bean counters rule the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you
Most cars built today are light years ahead of anything built 20 or more years ago.
As far as how abd why cars were lower cost or more affordable....they weren’t. What changed is the value of a dollar. A 1960 dollar had more buying power than a 2020 dollar. It’s not that a 1960 built house gained value. It’s the dollar losing buying power. It takes more dollars to buy the same item.
I'd go a little further back to between 90-95. I think OBD-2 has something to do with it, but also just better build quality in general. A 91 Toyota could easily be on the road today.
Maybe it has to do with Japan's bubble bursting and automakers pushing longevity instead of innovation - bubble era cars got wild! Maybe it's OBD-2 making data easily available. Maybe it's maturity in fuel injection systems. Maybe it's advancements in metallurgy in the 80s. I don't know.
A 72 Pinto started at $2078. Median household income in 71 was $8700.
A 21 Chevy Spark starts as $14095. Median household income is $68400.
A cheap car has gone from a deathtrap that cost 23.9% of median income to a penalty box that cost 20.6% of median income.
Other end of the spectrum though, my 69 Lotus cost $3000 new. $7680 median income in 69, so 39% of income. A new Lotus Evora starts at $96950, 141.7% of median income.
While you're not wrong, regarding "bean counters" destroying a better (more expensive) car, with regards to design, it's the GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS that dictate this mostly.
For example~ Head lamps. The Federal Gov't MANDATES...
How far apart they must be.
How high off the ground they must be.
How low to the ground they must be.
How bright they're allowed to be.
Regulations regarding "aim" of these lamps.
Now, this is only a partial list, of head lamps only.
Turn signal indicators have a myriad of regulations to comply with also.
I chose these, as this is just the very front, leading edge of a vehicle. There's a whole car behind these, that must comply with these arbitrary rules.
There are literally thousands of rules/laws & regulations, that car/truck makers MUST comply with, if they want to sell these vehicles in their markets.
Occasionally, a maker might try to "slip" one by the Fed Gov't. When caught, this never works in the maker's favor. (Hey, anyone wanna buy a few thousand diesel powered VW's?) Lots available, rotting on fields, here.
I chose these, as this is just the very front, leading edge of a vehicle. There's a whole car behind these, that must comply with these arbitrary rules.
This is not true; the rules are not really arbitrary, but supported by research. Ii some cases, that research and the like is slightly out of date in the US (lighting is a good example as the NHTSA has always been behind the curve on lighting improvements, holding onto outdated studies for far too long). But the rules are not arbitrary. Safety and crash testing creates a lot of them, and that stuff is studied extensively before regulations are created.
It would be handy if the world used a single set of rules, so that manufacturers wouldn't have to build different cars for different markets, but it is what it is when it comes to sovereignty.
I'd go a little further back to between 90-95. I think OBD-2 has something to do with it, but also just better build quality in general. A 91 Toyota could easily be on the road today.
Maybe it has to do with Japan's bubble bursting and automakers pushing longevity instead of innovation - bubble era cars got wild! Maybe it's OBD-2 making data easily available. Maybe it's maturity in fuel injection systems. Maybe it's advancements in metallurgy in the 80s. I don't know.
A 72 Pinto started at $2078. Median household income in 71 was $8700.
A 21 Chevy Spark starts as $14095. Median household income is $68400.
A cheap car has gone from a deathtrap that cost 23.9% of median income to a penalty box that cost 20.6% of median income.
Other end of the spectrum though, my 69 Lotus cost $3000 new. $7680 median income in 69, so 39% of income. A new Lotus Evora starts at $96950, 141.7% of median income.
Wish i had my 1974 pinto hatchback today he’ll wish i had all my cars back from the 70’s.
One thing I've noticed is that, as a whole, the members of younger generations don't seem to be as interested in driving. The car-related things that they are generally interested in are tangible things such as features and numbers on paper, instead of intangibles such as steering feel, driver involvement, etc. Obviously there are exceptions, like me, but I have relatives who would rather just Uber everywhere instead of drive themselves.
I know an "influencer" on Instagram who has a Tesla Model S. He's a cool guy, travels to car shows around the world, knows many high-profile car collectors, has ridden in/driven so many exclusive cars, and the like. However, he seems to be much more interested in paint colors and numbers on paper than anything else. Almost all of his posts are of recent limited-production hypercars with a mention of the color, production numbers, and/or performance specs. He seems to have no interest in working on cars (other than aesthetic things such as wraps), driving a manual, or really anything else that I think of a car enthusiast as being interested in doing.
Personally it seems to me that cars are becoming more about status and less about driving. Everything is being automated and regulated into monotony...I mean what's the difference between even a Cherokee, CR-V, CX-5, Equinox, Escape, Rogue, Tuscon, and RAV4? All of those are FWD-based, four-cylinder powered, automatically-shifted crossovers that are exceedingly capable but also exceedingly bland and replaceable. Nothing really differentiates itself from the rest of the crowd on paper. Not that it's an enthusiast segment, but there used to be some outliers like the V6-powered RAV4s, STI-powered Foresters, and manual 4WD CR-Vs.
I think the main reason older cars are "much cooler" is because digital does not age well. Would you rather have a 60's Corvette or one from the 90's??? Most will say 60's of course, the look sound, the manual everything (knobs controls ect) just gives the driver a different feeling that either takes you back in time or gives them a feeling inflated value.
Now you drive a 90's Corvette lets say with the LS Engine... very very nice engine with tons of options (instant power upgrade). Interior is very nice, controls are all an upgrade from the 60's (climate control, sound system, controls, ect), but that digital everything isn't as nice as lets say a 2019 Honda Civic... its an apples to oranges comparison that doesn't happen to between "classics."
Another reason is scarcity, older cars are harder to find, and parts even harder... if you drive one you either know A LOT about that car which makes you sort of an expert on that car. Doesn't always make you a gear head, but people will be fooled more often than not.
Now you drive a 90's Corvette lets say with the LS Engine... very very nice engine with tons of options (instant power upgrade). Interior is very nice,
Whoa whoa whoa. Calling 90s GM interiors "nice" is a stretch!
Whoa whoa whoa. Calling 90s GM interiors "nice" is a stretch!
I like the interior in my C5.
Not overdone, but functional for a sports car.
The custom phone mount was my idea after not finding one of the commercially available ones to my liking.
It moves in a number of directions, and can be positioned for the passenger to use it as well.
All in all I think the interior in the c5 is miles ahead of what preceded it.
I like the interior in my C5.
Not overdone, but functional for a sports car.........
............All in all I think the interior in the c5 is miles ahead of what preceded it.
I agree. I've either driven or ridden in a number of Corvettes, since the C-2s were brand new. My wife owned 2 C-3s, and I've owned a C-5 for close to 20 years. The C-5 was the most comfortable of all of them.
This is not true; the rules are not really arbitrary, but supported by research. Ii some cases, that research and the like is slightly out of date in the US (lighting is a good example as the NHTSA has always been behind the curve on lighting improvements, holding onto outdated studies for far too long). But the rules are not arbitrary. Safety and crash testing creates a lot of them, and that stuff is studied extensively before regulations are created.
It would be handy if the world used a single set of rules, so that manufacturers wouldn't have to build different cars for different markets, but it is what it is when it comes to sovereignty.
MOST of the rules/reg's the Governments dream up are the result of...horrific events. These are known as "Law makers."
The other reason is EGO. That's it.
BTW~ I'm IN the transportation industry.
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