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She was referring to "Western nations" letting immigrants in. What I was referring to was the British going to Australia and New Zealand almost wiping out the indigenous populations, then instituting a "White Australia" policy. Basically what I call a take over. You don't go to another place, take it away from the native population, then declare a policy where only people of your race can come it. Then again, I've looked over the posts and it is clear that the person I was last responding to wants an Australia where only Whites are allowed. I take it personal because I am Black, and I have also read that it extended to the point where an African-American scholar was denied entry into Australia, even if it was only for a short while.
Colonizing Australia and NZ didn't cause demographic changes to the UK or Europe. It caused demographic changes to Australia and NZ.
I understand you but in the discussion of people being overrun by others, the story of Australia (British vs Indigenous) is over and all of the consequences of that have happened and won't really cause anything new to happen.
It's a different discussion to current modern-day migration.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I think true racism isn't that prevalent in either country, but it's more visible in Oz (my guess). Sure, I've received a fair number of verbal insults/taunts, the other day I was told to 'go back to Asia' by a group of young kids wearing black and sporting mohawks. It's also common to see 'f**k off we're full' and 'sink the boats' bumper stickers, and it's common for Aussies to express somewhat racist attitudes, especially for aborigines. Mostly we're pretty tolerant, but there still is a sizable minority. The thing is the cities are becoming so multicultural so fast that some people find it hard to adapt.
The most racist and chauvinistic people I've ever met have been older people from Europe and Asia - not from the US or Australia.
When you have a homogenous, ethnic population - all speaking the same language - next to zero immigration, little opportunity to travel and a stagnant economy? Anything that looks or sounds different is a threat.
The US, Canada and Australia have long had quite a bit of diversity even among their european populations (germans, irish, italians, poles, etc). Most South American countries also have similar levels of diversity. That's not to say that everything is fine but it's hardly the problem it is in Old World countries. There's no Kurd vs. Arab war going on in New Zealand.
I just think about the venom that some Castillian speaking Spaniards have for Catalan speakers or how French kids are taught to denigrate the other languages spoken in their country (that haven't been completely eradicated yet). Or the violence in Thailand (or the Philippines for that matter) between the majority population and the muslim minority.
While I don't appreciate racism I can understand to a certain extent where Brits and Italians are coming from when they say they're fed up with immigration. Italians come from Italy. It's their homeland. The English come from England. When in Rome do as the Romans do or go home. Don't move to someone else's country and expect them to adapt to you. (granted, the Italians' problems with immigration are largely their own fault - for not having enough kids) It's just not the same in the US. Our countries are for people from all over the world and they always have been. Being an american doesn't require much more than a knowledge of english and an affinity for our sports. None of us come from here and, while i consider myself to be ethnically "american", there really is no one american ethnic group. None of us has the right to lock the door behind us.
She was referring to "Western nations" letting immigrants in. What I was referring to was the British going to Australia and New Zealand almost wiping out the indigenous populations, then instituting a "White Australia" policy. Basically what I call a take over. You don't go to another place, take it away from the native population, then declare a policy where only people of your race can come it. Then again, I've looked over the posts and it is clear that the person I was last responding to wants an Australia where only Whites are allowed. I take it personal because I am Black, and I have also read that it extended to the point where an African-American scholar was denied entry into Australia, even if it was only for a short while.
Colonizing Australia and NZ didn't cause demographic changes to the UK or Europe. It caused demographic changes to Australia and NZ.
Just as long as you realize you own country did almost exactly the same thing, except the USA ran a Chinese Exclusion Policy which was latter expanded to include other nationalities, effectively the white Australia policy was based on it, as almost every person in Australia who was not white or indigenous as the time, was a Chinese immigrant who arrived during the 1850's gold rush.
Last edited by danielsa1775; 07-17-2012 at 04:13 AM..
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,043,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly
The most racist and chauvinistic people I've ever met have been older people from Europe and Asia - not from the US or Australia.
When you have a homogenous, ethnic population - all speaking the same language - next to zero immigration, little opportunity to travel and a stagnant economy? Anything that looks or sounds different is a threat.
The US, Canada and Australia have long had quite a bit of diversity even among their european populations (germans, irish, italians, poles, etc). Most South American countries also have similar levels of diversity. That's not to say that everything is fine but it's hardly the problem it is in Old World countries. There's no Kurd vs. Arab war going on in New Zealand.
I just think about the venom that some Castillian speaking Spaniards have for Catalan speakers or how French kids are taught to denigrate the other languages spoken in their country (that haven't been completely eradicated yet). Or the violence in Thailand (or the Philippines for that matter) between the majority population and the muslim minority.
While I don't appreciate racism I can understand to a certain extent where Brits and Italians are coming from when they say they're fed up with immigration. Italians come from Italy. It's their homeland. The English come from England. When in Rome do as the Romans do or go home. Don't move to someone else's country and expect them to adapt to you. (granted, the Italians' problems with immigration are largely their own fault - for not having enough kids) It's just not the same in the US. Our countries are for people from all over the world and they always have been. Being an american doesn't require much more than a knowledge of english and an affinity for our sports. None of us come from here and, while i consider myself to be ethnically "american", there really is no one american ethnic group. None of us has the right to lock the door behind us.
I agree, the UK has more of a 'right' to maintain it's culture.etc than the recent immigrant nations, since it's been occupied by the English for a long time now. I guess it's relative, though, since most English came from the mainland in the past 2000 years.
I agree, the UK has more of a 'right' to maintain it's culture.etc than the recent immigrant nations, since it's been occupied by the English for a long time now. I guess it's relative, though, since most English came from the mainland in the past 2000 years.
So Aboriginals should have the right to maintain their culture in Oz versus the English migrants since they've lived in Oz for over 40,000 years??
I understand you but in the discussion of people being overrun by others, the story of Australia (British vs Indigenous) is over and all of the consequences of that have happened and won't really cause anything new to happen.
It's a different discussion to current modern-day migration.
It is different. There is a difference between immigrants and colonialists. Colonialists take countries away from people. Immigrants merely move to another nation and call it their new home. Immigrants don't come in bent on genocide. Colonialists,especially the ones who came to Australia, committed a genocide against the Aboriginal people.
If there are immigrants committing crimes, imprison them and then deport them. My point to the person I responded to was that this "Whites Only" Australia was that such a policy is hypocritical. This is the way I see it. At the time a "Whites Only Australia" policy was implemented, colonial powers from Europe were going in and taking nations away from peoples in Africa and Asia. The Aboriginal people basically had their nation taken from them. How can you taken a nation from someone, and then say "No non-Whites allowed", especially if the persons you took it from were themselves non-Whites? It sounds very Darwinian.
I agree, the UK has more of a 'right' to maintain it's culture.etc than the recent immigrant nations, since it's been occupied by the English for a long time now. I guess it's relative, though, since most English came from the mainland in the past 2000 years.
Interesting argument, so since we Maori have been in NZ since 1200 AD we should have the right to keep Maori culture on top ?
So Aboriginals should have the right to maintain their culture in Oz versus the English migrants since they've lived in Oz for over 40,000 years??
Tsk tsk, you are being awkward The Aussie high court did find Aboriginals to be mere fauna .
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The Aussie high court did find Aboriginals to be mere fauna .
