Prop 1 Open Thread (Austin, Center: cul-de-sac, transfer to, living in)

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by scm53

Well done FAQ.

20 year bonds. Fancy that!

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by gpurcell

20 year bonds. Fancy that!

I don't know where he's getting that, since the document he links says 5 years:

https://keepaustinwonky.files.wordpr...nd2014_faq.pdf

"Assuming annual increases in Taxable Assessed Value, a tax increase of 6.25 cents spread out over
five years would support repayment of the bonds and notes"

And his calculation based on that seems off from the city's listed number as well:
"Therefore, if you have a $500,000 assessed value property, you’ll have a bump of $312.50 annually for the next twenty years. "

And by off, I mean way lower.
500k -> $312 /year instead of 200k -> $217 /year

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Novacek

I don't know where he's getting that, since the document he links says 5 years:

https://keepaustinwonky.files.wordpr...nd2014_faq.pdf

"Assuming annual increases in Taxable Assessed Value, a tax increase of 6.25 cents spread out over
five years would support repayment of the bonds and notes"

And his calculation based on that seems off from the city's listed number as well:
"Therefore, if you have a $500,000 assessed value property, you’ll have a bump of $312.50 annually for the next twenty years. "

And by off, I mean way lower.
500k -> $312 /year instead of 200k -> $217 /year

"Next year the typical Travis County homeowner will pay an additional $291 in property taxes to the local governments that maintain streets, run the county jail, teach students of all ages and provide health care for the needy, among many other services."
Here

...and that is before any rail tax of $217.

So the typical TC homeowner might see a $291 increase but those promoting rail want to tack another $217 onto that for a total of $508 - a 75% boost in tax increases from what's already expected. There's already a discussion of sources of funding for a new stadium and Erwin center at a cost of up to $500 million. Some UT officials are suggesting it should be funded by COA taxpayers. Now if you understand "urbanist" lingo, they would call that "transit oriented development" because it would be right on the proposed rail line. In other words, if rail is approved it will just be the beginning of justifying very expensive tax increases for "transit oriented development" (funded by Austin taxpayers) along the route.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

So the typical TC homeowner might see a $291 increase but those promoting rail want to tack another $217 onto that for a total of $508 - a 75% boost in tax increases from what's already expected.

Where are you getting 75% boost?

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

Some UT officials are suggesting it should be funded by COA taxpayers. Now if you understand "urbanist" lingo, they would call that "transit oriented development" because it would be right on the proposed rail line.

Actually, most "urbanists" are against taxpayer funded stadiums.

And since we don't know where the stadium would be, how can you claim "it would be right on the proposed rail line"?

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Where are you getting 75% boost?

What is your educational background? Simple math - something that escapes rail proponents:

217/291 = 0.7457 ~ 75%

or if it helps you better:

(508 - 291)/291 = 0.7457 ~ 75%

Originally Posted by Novacek

Actually, most "urbanists" are against taxpayer funded stadiums.

Stadiums are the only thing off your list?

I don't trust the veracity or integrity of your "poll". You are already promoting a very expensive taxpayer funded rail system and taxpayer subsidized fares. You have repeatedly exhibited little respect for taxpayers whatsoever given the freedom with which you want to take and toss around their money.

Originally Posted by Novacek

And since we don't know where the stadium would be, how can you claim "it would be right on the proposed rail line"?

Where did "we" come from? If you want to claim ignorance then speak for yourself.

I noticed you only denied support for the specific example of a stadium but you didn't deny the general objective of taxpayer-funded "transit oriented development".

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

What is your educational background? Simple math - something that escapes rail proponents:

217/291 = 0.7457 ~ 75%

or if it helps you better:

(508 - 291)/291 = 0.7457 ~ 75%

One of those numbers is in 2014 dollars, the other in later year dollars.
One of them is for TC taxpayers, the other is CoA taxpayers.

They're not directly comparable.

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

Where did "we" come from?

We. The general taxpayer. We don't know yet where a new center would be (or even _if_ there will be one), yet you authoritatively state that it will be "on the rail line".

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

If you want to claim ignorance then speak for yourself.

So you're claiming you're a UT insider that somehow knows before _anyone_ where the final location will be?

[gpurcell]

The UT AD just today had an interview talking about how Austin was "lucky" to get the Erwin Center for "free" and how the City should help pony up for the new arena.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Novacek

One of those numbers is in 2014 dollars, the other in later year dollars.
One of them is for TC taxpayers, the other is CoA taxpayers.

They're not directly comparable.

The "later dollars" isn't really arguable. The only thing "later" is when the rail tax begins. Other than that the amounts are very fuzzy and well within the granularity being used for "typical taxpayer".

As far as Travis County or City of Austin -
The bulk of City of Austin residents are also in Travis County.
The rail tax applies only to City of Austin taxpayers.
For City of Austin taxpayers outside of Travis County, the rail tax may well represent an even higher percentage of the increase.

Originally Posted by Novacek

We. The general taxpayer. We don't know yet where a new center would be (or even _if_ there will be one), yet you authoritatively state that it will be "on the rail line". So you're claiming you're a UT insider that somehow knows before _anyone_ where the final location will be?

Do you even pay taxes? You don't speak for all taxpayers nor all citizens. At best you speak for a few proponents of a rail tax.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

Do you even pay taxes? You don't speak for all taxpayers nor all citizens. At best you speak for a few proponents of a rail tax.

We. All of us. All city of austin taxpayers have no idea where a replacement venue will be located. They simply aren't that far enough along in the process.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

As far as Travis County or City of Austin -
The bulk of City of Austin residents are also in Travis County.

But a large portion of Travis County taxpayers _aren't_ in the City of Austin.

Like 30%.

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

So the typical TC homeowner might see a $291 increase but those promoting rail want to tack another $217 onto that for a total of $508 - a 75% boost in tax increases from what's already expected.

You're adding two different numbers that are two different pools of residents. The "typical" travis county homeowner isn't the same as the "typical" Austin homeowner.