Austin - 10 years behind on roads? (Houston, Leander: established neighborhood, college, to live in)
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It's really, really presumptuous(and maybe even a little provincial?) to just assume that everyone stuck in traffic here is the result of people choosing to live far away from their workplace. Neither me or my wife have long commutes - her's is 8 minutes, I work at home or at coffeehouses. We have one car and so I walk, bike or ride the bus. Rush hour traffic is not really an issue for us. But whenever we want to go to a different part of the city (eating, shopping, checking out a trail somewhere, visiting people) it's a huge pain in the *ss. Even on weekends, traffic seems really problematic.
I don't think it's presumptuous or provincial to think that people's choices have consequences. I'm rarely stuck in traffic, and when I am, it's because I've chosen to drive to SOCO on a Friday at 5.00 for drinks or dinner. I'm not moaning and groaning about how the 'government' needs to fix my roads so that I can zip down there and back in 15 minutes like I used to.
For the record, I'm not a "growth for growth's sake" advocate, but this city's is on the radar big time and could develop into one of the country's model mid-sized places to live...or it could turn into Phoenix. Bad, bad, bad.
Very bad indeed. I would hate to have to leave Austin because it became like Phoenix. I am still wondering how I lasted in Phoenix for 4 years!!!
I wouldn't worry about that. Our land use restrictions won't allow the growth that Phoenix has witnessed. The other item to consider is we are becoming land lock. The last big annexation was in the mid 1990s. Once Lost Creek and the City work out there differences, I don't see any growth except to the Southeast towards Bastrop.
The other thing Austin did was it diversify. The partnership with UT, DARPA and the major semiconductor manufacturers changed our landscape in the mid 1980s. Combined with UT, MCC and the Pickle Research Center (OK, Trivia Time: What was Pickle Research Center known as before it was renamed?) and that venture capitalists saw the talents of UT, Texas A&M, Rice, Baylor, Texas Tech and UofH graduates, we are a natural choice for science. I also am impressed by the collaboration between Scott & White and Texas A&M.
I will also not forget 3M Austin Center, a major R&D laboratory for 3M.
Phoenix is a one-pony economy: build buildings and houses and the supporting infrastructure. They have major employers but I believe we are so far ahead with our economy. Unfortunately for some it will mean more traffic and it won't become less expensive (until some bubble bursts). After living through two bubble pops my house value is still increasing.
It's really, really presumptuous(and maybe even a little provincial?) to just assume that everyone stuck in traffic here is the result of people choosing to live far away from their workplace. Neither me or my wife have long commutes - her's is 8 minutes, I work at home or at coffeehouses. We have one car and so I walk, bike or ride the bus. Rush hour traffic is not really an issue for us. But whenever we want to go to a different part of the city (eating, shopping, checking out a trail somewhere, visiting people) it's a huge pain in the *ss. Even on weekends, traffic seems really problematic.
I don't think it's presumptuous or provincial to think that people's choices have consequences. I'm rarely stuck in traffic, and when I am, it's because I've chosen to drive to SOCO on a Friday at 5.00 for drinks or dinner. I'm not moaning and groaning about how the 'government' needs to fix my roads so that I can zip down there and back in 15 minutes like I used to.
Maybe I should clarify. I didn't say that people's choices don't have consequences: I get heartburn because I ate tacos before I went to sleep, someone is miserable because they married the wrong person, unhappy in their job, stuck in rush hour traffic on I-35 because they live in San Marcos but work in Austin. I get all that.
But to infer that people stuck in traffic are stuck because of their choices? C'mon, that seems a little simplified. The observations on this thread are about how Austin's automobile infrastructure is inadequate and frankly hazardous in places for the city's needs. Now. Not 20 years ago, not 20 years from now. Like I said before, I'm OK with rush hour traffic. That's why it's called "rush hour". The problems here seem to be structural.
For example, at 4:30 today, my wife and I had to drive from South 1st to Tarrytown to feed her Uncle's dogs. Of course I would have rather gone at 2pm but since we were working and the dogs had to eat, there we were. We knew that traffic would be heavy so we were mentally prepared. The exit off of MoPac onto Lake Austin Blvd had a stop sign instead of a traffic light. So there we were, with a bunch of other folks trying to cross traffic through a bumper-to-bumper caterpillar of disgruntled drivers only getting out because of someone's goodwill. That seems to be just an outdated, mismanaged intersection. I see stuff like that everywhere around here. I'm not talking about $200 billion projects.
Analogy
There's a line of thinking that I agree with pertaining to hunger relief in starving nations. It goes like this: When the only steps you take are feeding the people who are currently starving, you create an even bigger starving population in the next generation. That teaching these communities family planning will eventually lead to a population that can support itself. But it only works if you feed the people currently starving while teaching them how to plan for their future.
So, using this analogy, if Austin needs to learn "birth control", the way to start is to fix(feed) the current problems and plan properly for future growth. I think encouraging people to live downtown(where major development should be) is a great start.
*the subject of birth control is used for analogous purposes only*
I never really gave it that kind of thought, but I have to agree with the stop sign (structural) issue you pointed out. I do have a hard time visualizing us with Houston sized freeway systems, however, and wish they would put a little more "meat on the bones" of this railway system, even from the start. I'm not sure it's enough. I loved that when we were in Denver, CDOT included virtually every outlying area from Dowtown, even as far as Highlands Ranch for a rail line. They just went whole hog, and I wished austin had the cajones to do that.
I do have a hard time visualizing us with Houston sized freeway systems, however, and wish they would put a little more "meat on the bones" of this railway system, even from the start. I'm not sure it's enough. I loved that when we were in Denver, CDOT included virtually every outlying area from Dowtown, even as far as Highlands Ranch for a rail line. They just went whole hog, and I wished austin had the cajones to do that.
I agree totally. I'm not sure why public transportation is so frightening for some people. It sure as hell beats sitting in a car on a freeway with a bunch of other crab-asses
I agree and I think this is the most interesting point.
It's really, really presumptuous(and maybe even a little provincial?) to just assume that everyone stuck in traffic here is the result of people choosing to live far away from their workplace. Neither me or my wife have long commutes - her's is 8 minutes, I work at home or at coffeehouses. We have one car and so I walk, bike or ride the bus. Rush hour traffic is not really an issue for us. But whenever we want to go to a different part of the city (eating, shopping, checking out a trail somewhere, visiting people) it's a huge pain in the *ss. Even on weekends, traffic seems really problematic.
I understand and accept a certain amount of traffic inconvenience when dealing with "any" city. But I think the point here is that Austin has deep design flaws that are simply inadequate in dealing with the city "as it is right now". Never mind what it might become.
There always seems to be this conflict between public and private interests. It seems to be very acute here in Austin where folks seem to be very change averse. Everybody wants to be the last one to find something cool. I can totally understand that but it's so obvious that the city will continue to grow. We can sit here and talk about how that may or may not suck, but the truth is, Austin better do something about these issues or this place will quickly go from one of the most desirable places to live to one of the least.
I really don't think that proper growth planning and quality of life are mutually exclusive.
I think every great city grew OUT of proper planning. Great cities don't just happen out of their own accord, so to speak. Great cities don't happen when builders and such have carte blanche to sprawl their product all over, without regard to future traffic flow, or quality of life, either.It seems to me that Austin growth is largely unregulated. One glance and you can see that it is based on the same unregulated, unzoned mish-mash that is Houston, but on a smaller scale. If it continues in this mode, not only will it really suck to get around and live in Austin, but worst, people will start leaving, prob beginning with the long-term locals. Again, great cities have great planning too.....
By "vinegar" I take your meaning as attempts at stonewalling growth? Or are you referring to toll roads vs. building new roads. If the former, I think that could prove disastrous to the city. I think managing growth would be better(i.e. keep the development downtown) For the record, I'm not a "growth for growth's sake" advocate, but this city's is on the radar big time and could develop into one of the country's model mid-sized places to live...or it could turn into Phoenix. Bad, bad, bad.
Twange, funny you mentioned that. I think it is on the cusp of Tempe right now, design-wise. Again, its a south AND west thing, as they are simply not prone to regulation and planning, which is a good thing too. The libertarian spirit indeed lives here, but I think a healthy dose of planning would be good right now for Austin. Texas allowed open liquor to be drunk by drivers in broad daylight until about 15 years ago, so they just have a lot more room to come over to the planning side.
Maybe I should clarify. I didn't say that people's choices don't have consequences: I get heartburn because I ate tacos before I went to sleep, someone is miserable because they married the wrong person, unhappy in their job, stuck in rush hour traffic on I-35 because they live in San Marcos but work in Austin. I get all that.
But to infer that people stuck in traffic are stuck because of their choices? C'mon, that seems a little simplified. The observations on this thread are about how Austin's automobile infrastructure is inadequate and frankly hazardous in places for the city's needs. Now. Not 20 years ago, not 20 years from now. Like I said before, I'm OK with rush hour traffic. That's why it's called "rush hour". The problems here seem to be structural.
For example, at 4:30 today, my wife and I had to drive from South 1st to Tarrytown to feed her Uncle's dogs. Of course I would have rather gone at 2pm but since we were working and the dogs had to eat, there we were. We knew that traffic would be heavy so we were mentally prepared. The exit off of MoPac onto Lake Austin Blvd had a stop sign instead of a traffic light. So there we were, with a bunch of other folks trying to cross traffic through a bumper-to-bumper caterpillar of disgruntled drivers only getting out because of someone's goodwill. That seems to be just an outdated, mismanaged intersection. I see stuff like that everywhere around here. I'm not talking about $200 billion projects.
Analogy
There's a line of thinking that I agree with pertaining to hunger relief in starving nations. It goes like this: When the only steps you take are feeding the people who are currently starving, you create an even bigger starving population in the next generation. That teaching these communities family planning will eventually lead to a population that can support itself. But it only works if you feed the people currently starving while teaching them how to plan for their future.
So, using this analogy, if Austin needs to learn "birth control", the way to start is to fix(feed) the current problems and plan properly for future growth. I think encouraging people to live downtown(where major development should be) is a great start.
*the subject of birth control is used for analogous purposes only*
Mimi, you make good points too about us all making choices, with loaded implications. I think that that isn't the case with Austin traffic, as there are no decent public transportation alternatives. Short of biking downtown, you pretty much have to use the expressways to get there. There is no decent North-South boulevard system, which I think an even worse thing. So much just flows diagonal, and/or dead-ends...Even Lamar, prob one of the longest, straightest N-S streets, has parts that just end. We need alternatives besided telecommuting. There will never be a point when everyone telecommutes. For the vast majority who must work outside of their abode, a choice ot transportation alternatives would be ideal at this point.
Last edited by southwest1230; 10-29-2007 at 08:28 PM..
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