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Mrdkb, where do you live by chance? I've lived in apts off Satellite near Gwinnett Place for the past year. I can say- it ain't great living here. My wife wouldn't stay her by herself if I was out of town, and I don't blame her.
That said, Im moving out to Dacula (actual city of Dacula, not Hamilton Mill) pretty soon (this weekend actually) and it honestly feels like night and day between the two areas, and we couldn't be happier with our new house. Gwinnett does have a lot of great features (my wife and I both work here), but there are obviously major problems in certain areas and I don't think I'm racist or overreacting to fear that it will spread.
I hope Georgia is right when he says the reason we've seen so much in the news is because they are cracking down in a serious way and the drug tracffickers will find a new home.
You are not. CityFanatic has different agenda. There are certain places in all areas that you would not want to leave. In Forsyth, for example, around the city area in cumming you will see illegals all over the place. Not a place to live. I live near Harbins Park. There are no apts. within 4-5 miles of me. The new Archer HS will have no apts and very litle commercial or strips mall centers. It's quiet out here.
Today from AJC article regarding divrsity in Gwinnett
"Just look at the area (Pleasant Hill Road)," he said. "It's (the China/Korea trip) just going to bring the international focus more and more to Gwinnett County. I think with the demographics we have here, you've got to have that to survive."
I also have to agree that what City Fanatic said had a lot of truth to it. But, I think that Hispanic people will assimilate into American culture just as earlier waves of immigrants did. At one point, Italians, like me, had lower IQ scores than Anglo-Saxons up until the 1950s. They are European, and they have since assimilated. I think, like someone said, that many Hispanics score lower because of thier status as an immigrant. I also think that they will inter-marry with whites and self-identify as white a few generations down the line.
I also agree that th 1965 act changed America a great deal. Gwinnett County is a testament to that. I think as the years progress you will see movements to repeal it. I think the main reason we have not seen it is because the baby boomers support it, due to the fact that that generation is about 85% white. Once they are no longer in power, things could change.
I also do think that progressives will ruin America, but the pendulum will swing the other way, and a backlash against progressives is unavoidable. I just hope its not too late.
Lastly, it all depends on what you like. If you like to be around foriegners, then Gwinnett is for you. If you dont, then Gwinnett isnt for you.
Also, its so interesting how people lable things that scare them, yet refuse to acknowledge the arguments themselves.
The world changes everyday and will keep changing whether guys like you like it or not. You assume that the U.S. as it is now will exist in another 10,20,50 or even a 100 years from now. There's no garantee of that. Plenty of nations throughout the history of this world have risen or fallen, changed names, change forms of government, and had languages die out or reborn in a new form.
I ask you: What makes the United States of America any different? Did the Native Americans have any choice in this change of their governments, languages, and belief systems before YOUR ancestors arrived to these lands? Do you even care to ask? Probably not.
Stop blaming the immigrants for this change that you so hate. Blame the greed of YOUR founding fathers who devised a so-called "free-market" system that declares that importing freelabor was was better than *gasp* paying fair wages to the common people that were already around. Guys like you espouse the most laziest, obstinate, and insular thought processes it's pretty much a joke.
That's okay, though. Your thought processes will become extinct after awhile to give birth to a new way of thinking. But in the mean time? Whatever makes you happy, "Conservative"... Keep posting your nonsensical diatribes.
the world changes everyday and will keep changing whether guys like you like it or not. You assume that the u.s. As it is now will exist in another 10,20,50 or even a 100 years from now. There's no garantee of that. Plenty of nations throughout the history of this world have risen or fallen, changed names, change forms of government, and had languages die out or reborn in a new form.
I ask you: What makes the united states of america any different? Did the native americans have any choice in this change of their governments, languages, and belief systems before your ancestors arrived to these lands? Do you even care to ask? Probably not.
Stop blaming the immigrants for this change that you so hate. Blame the greed of your founding fathers who devised a so-called "free-market" system that declares that importing freelabor was was better than *gasp* Paying fair wages to the common people that were already around. Guys like you espouse the most laziest, obstinate, and insular thought processes it's pretty much a joke.
That's okay, though. Your thought processes will become extinct after awhile to give birth to a new way of thinking. But in the mean time? Whatever makes you happy, "conservative"... Keep posting your nonsensical diatribes.
I ask you: What makes the United States of America any different? Did the Native Americans have any choice in this change of their governments, languages, and belief systems before YOUR ancestors arrived to these lands? Do you even care to ask? Probably not.
Stop blaming the immigrants for this change that you so hate. Blame the greed of YOUR founding fathers who devised a so-called "free-market" system that declares that importing freelabor was was better than *gasp* paying fair wages to the common people that were already around. Guys like you espouse the most laziest, obstinate, and insular thought processes it's pretty much a joke.
That's okay, though. Your thought processes will become extinct after awhile to give birth to a new way of thinking. But in the mean time? Whatever makes you happy, "Conservative"... Keep posting your nonsensical diatribes.
OK...first....there is a HUGE difference between a legal immigrant who filled out the forms and moved here the right way and an illegal alien who jumped the line, broke the law, and came here without an invitation. My mother was a LEGAL immigrant to this country almost 60 years ago. Years ago, people immigrated to the US and wanted to be Americans. The saying "the great melting pot" typified this kind of thinking. The goal was to come here and make a new life and escape whatever was bad in your homeland, and TO BE American.
Today, we have people who are really nothing but squatters. Their first action upon coming here is breaking the law. Their home countries like Mexico provide them with no options and no economic opportunities, and so because they can swim across a river or hide in the back of a truck, they come here. To boot, we've been lax in our reaction and don't enforce our rules and laws. These people don't want to be Americans. Many don't want to "melt" and be part of the fabric and tradition of the American system. Many simply want to make money and send that money to family and relatives in their home country.
You seem to be injecting your hate for the capatalist system into the discussion and as many "blame America first" types do, you automatically put the blame on Americans and our system, rather than where it truly belongs. I fully agree that we should be choking the demand aspects of illegal immigration. Fine companies and fine them stiffly when they hire someone who is not legally able to work here, but also we need to get serious about the supply side of the equation. We need to take our borders seriously and enforce them as if they're more than just a suggestion.
As for the "new way of thinking"....I won't engage on that nonesense here on the Atlanta forum, but I think there are these things called elections that happen every couple of years. 2010 and 2012 should be interesting.
To have people get legalized citizenship in this country has become more difficult in recent years. Especially for certain groups of people and easier for others. I'm sure when your mother came here all she had to do to be legal was get married and or have kids. People use to do this all the time and get divorced the next day. People got cheap labor out of the exchange with Mexicans it is ridiculous to think that they are the only "illegal" group of immigrants that are here but I guess they are the most obvious ones. No one is blaming America but some use America and founding fathers crap to say who should and shouldn't be here. Not cool at all.
America and its every changing complextion make it one of the best places to live in the world. This doesn't make others feel comfortable but why can't people just learn to get a long?
To have people get legalized citizenship in this country has become more difficult in recent years. Especially for certain groups of people and easier for others. I'm sure when your mother came here all she had to do to be legal was get married and or have kids. People use to do this all the time and get divorced the next day. People got cheap labor out of the exchange with Mexicans it is ridiculous to think that they are the only "illegal" group of immigrants that are here but I guess they are the most obvious ones. No one is blaming America but some use America and founding fathers crap to say who should and shouldn't be here. Not cool at all.
America and its every changing complextion make it one of the best places to live in the world. This doesn't make others feel comfortable but why can't people just learn to get a long?
It's not a matter of getting along. I grew up in NYC and lived with every ethnic and racial group known to man within a 5 mile radius.
I was using Mexicans as an example because they are the most numerous and obvious example, especially here in Atlanta. The same thing could apply to the Irish illegals in Boston or NY.
You do miss the point. The US has no obligation to make it easy for anyone to come to the US. Yes, my mother got married and came here, but she followed the laws that existed. If we believe that open borders are the way things should be, then our Congress and President should pass and sign that into law, and we can open the floodgates. Any country has the right to its sovereignty and to control who is allowed to move to and be part of the country. What do you think would happen if you snuck into Mexico and demamded a job and benefits from that government? Go try and you'll see.
My gripe isn't so much with the presence of any person or group of people, but rather the arrogance of those who come here illegally and expect a welcome mat laid out for them. The law is what it is until changed, and Americans have a right to expect that foreigners respect our laws. The ends do not justify the means and chaos is not a substitute for a civil society.
Nope, think you missed my point. I'm not saying that just because anyone decides to come here they should just come and everything must be ok. I actually was not trying to make this an illegal and legal immigration debate. Obviously, things must be very bad in their country for them to come here. Some that have posted on this thread and some living in the N. or Atlanta parts of GA mainly to get away from I'll just say groups of people moved North and now that "groups" of people are moving into the burbs people don't' like it. One of the posters did not like that Indians or Asians are in his/her area most likely they are legal and pay their taxes what is wrong with them being there? Like I said the complextion of the US and the South for that matter is changing. People that move to the South want what the South has which is the home feel but without the racial issues. It will get there.
OK...first....there is a HUGE difference between a legal immigrant who filled out the forms and moved here the right way and an illegal alien who jumped the line, broke the law, and came here without an invitation. My mother was a LEGAL immigrant to this country almost 60 years ago. Years ago, people immigrated to the US and wanted to be Americans. The saying "the great melting pot" typified this kind of thinking. The goal was to come here and make a new life and escape whatever was bad in your homeland, and TO BE American.
Yeah but you still discount the "color" barrier that subtlety still exists. Yes, your parents came here legally, but historically Europeans always had a welcome mat into this country even if that mat was worn and frayed at times. MY ancestors who have BEEN here since this country was started had to fight up to about about 40 years ago for some semblance of recognition and STILL there is murmuring in some quarters on whether or not a guy like myself is considered "American."
I don't feel like I've melted enough into the fabric of this country and that's not without trying. So I can understand it when another person of color comes here only to find that the majority culture who wants him/her to cut their yards, wash their pots, gut their chickens, and wash the crapholes of their elderly at BELOW living wages BUT refuse to pay the taxes for those english-literate schools for said colored person would feel isolated and eventually unwilling to yield to the english dominant culture. It's as if the dominant group in this country speaks out of both sides of their mouths: Love the reduced cost labor, but hate the laborer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Today, we have people who are really nothing but squatters. Their first action upon coming here is breaking the law. Their home countries like Mexico provide them with no options and no economic opportunities, and so because they can swim across a river or hide in the back of a truck, they come here. To boot, we've been lax in our reaction and don't enforce our rules and laws. These people don't want to be Americans. Many don't want to "melt" and be part of the fabric and tradition of the American system. Many simply want to make money and send that money to family and relatives in their home country.
You can't blame the Mexicans for that. They see an opportunity, they go for it. Besides I've never been in disagreement about the border situation, I do agree that it should enforced strictly, but blame your buddy Bush for spending a trillion dollars for the lie known as the "War -on-Terror" and handouts for Wall Street than to spend that same money to help the legal citizens who are already here, and suffering at home. But I guess it has always been this way with this country. Mexicans just happen to be the new flavor to hate for this month, that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
You seem to be injecting your hate for the capatalist system into the discussion and as many "blame America first" types do, you automatically put the blame on Americans and our system, except where it truly belongs. I fully agree that we should be choking the demand aspects of illegal immigration. Fine companies and fine them stiffly when they hire someone who is not legally able to work here, but also we need to get serious about the supply side of the equation. We need to take our borders seriously and enforce them as if they're more than just a suggestion.
And "Conservatives" like yourself always seem to want to lay blame for society's ills at the feet of the powerless. What's your point? Aside from that, illegal immigrants have NO say what-so-ever over our policies and how America spends its money, AMERICANS do.
It just so happens that there are some Americans of extreme wealth that are quite comfortable hoarding their extreme wealth and enjoying the reduced cost labor that helps them accumulate that wealth BUT don't want to deal with that same labor when it comes to schooling, health, and welfare. THAT'S the hypocrisy I see in this country all the time and guys like you always seem to skate over that little inconvenient aspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
As for the "new way of thinking"....I won't engage on that nonesense here on the Atlanta forum, but I think there are these things called elections that happen every couple of years. 2010 and 2012 should be interesting.
Do as you will, and I will do the same, my friend.
People that move to the South want what the South has which is the home feel but without the racial issues. It will get there.
I'm in full agreement with anyone that immigrants who come here legally and properly, and wants to be Americans.....WELCOME!!!
I do think it would be nice if legally settled immigrants assimilated with the language and the culture, at least more than the trend today. One of the hallmarks of immigrants to the US a hundred years ago was that they came here, struggled, made a new life and their children had a better life as a result. Most became citizens as soon as they could. They learned English and adapted their ways.
Today, in some cases, you have children born in the US who speak poor english or no english at all. Some immigrants come here and never become citizens. Some make little attempt to learn english or to adapt their habits to their new country.
Still, so as not to over-generalize, many people come here legally, love this country, become citizens when able, and add to the fabric of the country. My mother is one such person. She considers herself an American. Not a hyphenated American or a former something else, but just an American.
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paying fair wages to the common people that were already around. Guys like you espouse the most laziest, obstinate, and insular thought processes it's pretty much a joke.
