Living "green" in Atlanta (Alpharetta, Boston: refrigerators, safe area, income)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

I believe in warming, but we're not the major cause. This wasn't even discussed 5 years ago. (1)

I also don't want to pay taxes on going 'green', let private corps lead the way with tax breaks by the govt. Not the govt. trying to enforce green. (2)

(1) That is false.
History of the greenhouse effect and global warming

(2) Tax breaks were available until December 31, 2007 on energy efficient appliances, windows, etc. Tax breaks are still available on solar panels and hybrid cars*.

*Which, by the way, are cheaper to buy than the the average new car sold in the US:

Average: approx $28,000
Buying A New Car

Prius: approx $21,500
Edmunds.com - 2008 Toyota Prius Car Pricing Guide

Civic Hybrid: approx $23,000
Edmunds.com - 2008 Honda Civic Car Pricing Guide


That makes the whole "recoup" business a load of bull, EXCEPT for those who would otherwise purchase a small car...in other words, if you currently drive an SUV, sports car, luxury sedan, van/minivan or large truck, and you use the "recoup" argument against buying a hybrid, you've either been tricked, or you're not telling the truth.

[rvbrad]

Our most recent home exists in a very old community. We purchased it from the original family - all in great condition, but as well, all very original and dated. Previous to moving in, we stripped the house down to the studs (interior wall studs as the house is actually true masonry with plastered interior walls over the brick) and rehabilitated everything. This was in 2005/2006, but decided at that time that we might as well make it as energy efficient as possible.

Insulated the attic (approx R-35/40 of blown cellulose)
Energy efficient thermal paned windows
Gas tankless water heater
Energy Star kitchen appliances
Fluorescent lighting through-out with CFLs
17 SEER heat pump
Thermally insulated shingles ilo asphalt
Morgan fir wooden insulated exterior doors
Cellulose insulated floor (house exists over a crawlspace)
Some insulated wall space (due to floorplan modifications)
Front load washer/dryer Energy Star

The house is about 2700sq ft; family of 3 (4th here within a few weeks) and our total electric, water, gas utilities amount to nor more than $200/month.

Our last house was a subdivision spec home - pretty nice. Not extravagant, but it was a brick-over-frame built home. Slightly smaller, but the utility bills were 2 1/2 times what we spend now.

[LoufromNewYork]

There are other little things that people don't realize, like keeping systems (HVAC specifically) clean so that they aren't working overtime. Also cleaning any AC grate in rooms and ceiling fans so you get the most out of them.

Also, a lot of ceiling fans can go forward and reverse so in the winter it can spread the heat and help it get warmer quicker.

rvbrad - that sound cool. I look forward to doing the same thing in the next 6 months when I get somethin in town. From the looks of the West End thread, I think I'll check over there. How much did everything cost you to get done?

[rvbrad]

Lou,

To answer your question check below. Some of this I'm estimating a bit as its been a couple years now and it was all out-of-pocket expense that occurred at once. But, should be withiin a 5% deviation.

I'd do it again. The house is exactly what we want it to be with little compromise. Added major value too as we mortgaged the home after we were done and it appraised for close to 30% more than we anticipated.

Originally Posted by rvbrad

Our most recent home exists in a very old community. We purchased it from the original family - all in great condition, but as well, all very original and dated. Previous to moving in, we stripped the house down to the studs (interior wall studs as the house is actually true masonry with plastered interior walls over the brick) and rehabilitated everything. This was in 2005/2006, but decided at that time that we might as well make it as energy efficient as possible.

Insulated the attic (approx R-35/40 of blown cellulose) <$1000
Energy efficient thermal paned windows $7000 (pricey, yes, but the house needed windows, regardless)
Gas tankless water heater $700 (Bosch HX model, requires no 110V at all)
Energy Star kitchen appliances $20k (Bosch & Viking)
Fluorescent lighting through-out with CFLs <$3000 (no ceiling lighting originally, so necessary again)
17 SEER heat pump $6500 (complete install incl. ductwork)
Thermally insulated shingles ilo asphalt $3500
Morgan fir wooden insulated exterior doors approx $2000
Cellulose insulated floor (house exists over a crawlspace) $1500 (the BEST deal)
Some insulated wall space (due to floorplan modifications)
Front load washer/dryer Energy Star $1300

The house is about 2700sq ft; family of 3 (4th here within a few weeks) and our total electric, water, gas utilities amount to nor more than $200/month.

Our last house was a subdivision spec home - pretty nice. Not extravagant, but it was a brick-over-frame built home. Slightly smaller, but the utility bills were 2 1/2 times what we spend now.

[martarider]

Sorry but I cannot stand compact flourescent lights. The bluish quality, the dimness, the flickering. Flourescent is great for a morgue or a hospital. Not a home. And besides, CF lights have mercury in them which is toxic and creates hazardous waste problem.

[rvbrad]

I have GE bulbs that are yellow-ish. We don't know the difference with them. They're supposed to be very similar to traditional incandescent lighting.

[gt6974a]

Originally Posted by JPD

(1) That is false.
History of the greenhouse effect and global warming

(2) Tax breaks were available until December 31, 2007 on energy efficient appliances, windows, etc. Tax breaks are still available on solar panels and hybrid cars*.

*Which, by the way, are cheaper to buy than the the average new car sold in the US:

Average: approx $28,000
Buying A New Car

Prius: approx $21,500
Edmunds.com - 2008 Toyota Prius Car Pricing Guide

Civic Hybrid: approx $23,000
Edmunds.com - 2008 Honda Civic Car Pricing Guide


That makes the whole "recoup" business a load of bull, EXCEPT for those who would otherwise purchase a small car...in other words, if you currently drive an SUV, sports car, luxury sedan, van/minivan or large truck, and you use the "recoup" argument against buying a hybrid, you've either been tricked, or you're not telling the truth.

1) I can find plenty of articles that say the opposite.

2) I was referring to breaks on private corps, not individuals.

Clark howard has already debunked this car theory on his show several times with the numbers. You'd have to own the civic for over 10 years before you 'recoup' the cost vs it's regular gas model.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

1) I can find plenty of articles that say the opposite.

Clark howard has already debunked this car theory on his show several times with the numbers. You'd have to own the civic for over 10 years before you 'recoup' the cost vs it's regular gas model.

Obviously, man made global warming has been a topic of discussion for more than the last five years. That is a fact that cannot be debunked. We had clubs dedicated to this topic at my high school. That was almost 20 years ago.

Clark Howard tricked you. Though maybe not intentionally. Unless you drive an inexpensive, fuel efficient vehicle (like Clark does, or claims to), his argument is nonsense. Again, and this is very important, that "debunking" is only applicable to people who would have otherwise bought a vehicle that is priced lower than a hybrid. People who bought SUVs, sports cars, etc. would have saved money from the start had they bought a hybrid and there wold be nothing to recoup.

I guess nobody is going to admit they bought an SUV. I probably wouldn't admit to such an idiotic purchase, either.

The way I look at Hybrids vs regular cars is this: Assuming that over the course of ten years, the money you spend to purchase & drive a Civic Hybrid vs a regular Civic is equal, the hybrid is the better choice, and this, in my opinion, is the most important reason why: The hybrid driver, by paying more up front, has chosen to give more money to Honda, and less to Saudi Arabia and OPEC.

For the record, I do not own a hybrid. Hopefully I can go full electric next time I have to buy a car.

[mxd.Brit]

I think there are many benefits to 'going green' even if you don't buy into the whole global warming theory and I think that is what people are not wising up to.
I read an article about Carlifornians (cant remember which part) refusing to have wind farms put up for aesthetic reasons. Europe wised up to this a long time ago (there are wind farms everywhere and I think they look great) and our bills were so much cheaper when we were in England.
Another idea is using heating over night in the winter well that's unheard of in Europe... duvets work well and you dont get headaches and dryness when you wake up.
I do find it frustrating that some people dont even attempt to recycle their household waste. Again without having to buy into the global warming theory. We will soon run out of land to dump off this rubbish that we produce and does not decompose for 10 million years. All this wonderful land will eventually be nasty land fill sites for generations to come.
Driving a car will soon become a hazard to your health with all the smog.
.... and my skin flares up with eczema if I use lotions and products with all those nasty chemicals so again benefits me.
I am not 100% 'green' but for my benefit I do what I can as it mostly benefits me.

[Chris_Davis]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

I still don't believe in 'us' causing global warming. I believe in warming, but we're not the major cause. This wasn't even discussed 5 years ago.

This has been discussed for decades. George Bush was talking about global warming in the 2000 election... three years prior to the five you suggest, although he questioned it as you do... I presume you are much smarter than he is and it surprised me that anyone could not believe man made industrialization hasn't affected our climate. The smog alerts we've had this week were not caused by mother nature!!!