Georgia should just leave the past in the past.. (Boston: buyers, gated)

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Agreed. I completely understand that people just thought different then. That's given. But that doesn't mean that we have to honor the horrible things they did against other people... Why?

Does that mean Charles Manson's son should honor him by starting Helter Skelter?
That's retarded...

Jim Jones' grandchildren don't need to drink the kool-aid just because he did...


So, if instead of General Lee, you found out you were a relative of Hitler, you would say "well, they thought different in the 1930 & 1940s, so it's okay... And I'm going to honor my relatives by buying my Nazi flag on my license plate..."
How do you think that guy that found THAT out (Hitler's ancestor) feels? Think he decided he should be a Neo-Nazi and it shouldn't be a problem because things were different then?

I understand that things were different in the past. But so what? We are not in the past.

Fact is I'm not related to Hitler, none of my ancestry came from Central Europe, I'm probably as close to the guy as you are.

Jeff Davis no Charles Manson, James Longstreet and even Nathan Bedford Forrest were no Jim Jones' respectively. The comparison is stupid.

The other Lee's I'm related to served under John Baylor in the 2nd Texas Cavalry in operations here in New Mexico/Arizona. I have two great-great-great-Great uncles who served during the siege of Vicksburg, captured, paroled, joined Maj. General Patrick Cleburne's division in Brig. General Hiram Granbury's Texas Brigade and participated in the defense of Atlanta. I have 3 distant cousins who served in John Hunt Morgan's 2nd Kentucky Cavalry during the battle of Chickamauga.

You're comparing them to mass killers.

Originally Posted by arjay57

Let's not forget that the south was hardly monolithic. There were plenty of southerners who did not support the war or the Confederacy.

In towns like Atlanta -- which had only emerged from the backwoods 20 years earlier -- a lot of folks simply wanted to make a living.

Agree'd.

Look up places like Logan, West Virginia. It got pretty interesting for both sides in Appalachia.

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's not just about what the Confederacy or the flag of the Confederacy meant to people contemporaneously in the 1860s. We know there were southerners who opposed the war and/or slavery. We know that some northerners were Confederate sympathizers, and some supported slavery.

The issue is that with the benefit of hindsight, and all that the flag meant as a symbol during the civil rights movement, we know what it came to mean. Is it a coincidence that southern states, including Georgia, added the stars and bars (or a reasonable facsimile) to their state flags in the 1950s? Is it coincidence that the KKK and skinheads continue to use it as a symbol of their beliefs?

Only Georgia added the Battle Flag in the 1950's (and even then, is there any legitimate proof even showing it was a reaction to Brown v. Board? The Flag designer, nor the state government had anything to say about that "derned integration" as I imagine you think they would have said in reference to the flag change).

Mississippi had theirs since 1894, theirs wasn't some big middle finger to D.C. it was chosen as a legitimate replacement for the old pre-secession Magnolia flag.

And the SCV continues to fight Neo-Nazis and the Klan for use of the flag. I personally think those skinheads are besmirching the memories of veterans.

[Psykomonkee]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Let me ask this, is there anyone in here that's not white that would actually put this tag on their car?

Interesting question............

Maybe Kanye West would...

As a matter of fact, I wonder how people feel about Kanye West wearing and "taking" the flag as his own...

“React how you want. Like I said, any energy you got is good energy. You know, the Confederate flag represented slavery, in a way — that’s my abstract take on what I know about it, right? So I made the song ‘New Slaves.’ So I took the Confederate flag and made it my flag. It’s my flag now! Now what are you gonna do?”


For Kanye, wearing the Confederate flag isn’t about mocking his ancestors, but appropriating something that white, conservative racists love, and letting them feel helpless as he denigrates everything it means to them.

Q-Tip stated on Twitter:

“**** the Confederate flag. I love Kanye no shots but my people continue to suffer psychologically from hardships that happened under that banner.

Why Kanye West's Confederate Flag Is AWESOME | UPTOWN Magazine


To me, it's just dumb for us to fight over preserving a symbol when we see the horribleness that it means to so many people. It's not worth it.

[ATLHRLGUY]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Let me ask this, is there anyone in here that's not white that would actually put this tag on their car?

This guy
Remember this USC student?


...and this guy I miss the Chappelle Show

Originally Posted by Desert kid

Only Georgia added the Battle Flag in the 1950's (and even then, is there any legitimate proof even showing it was a reaction to Brown v. Board? The Flag designer, nor the state government had anything to say about that "derned integration" as I imagine you think they would have said in reference to the flag change).

Mississippi had theirs since 1894, theirs wasn't some big middle finger to D.C. it was chosen as a legitimate replacement for the old pre-secession Magnolia flag.

And the SCV continues to fight Neo-Nazis and the Klan for use of the flag. I personally think those skinheads are besmirching the memories of veterans.

Brown v. Board served as a catalyst
It's a quick read, but you can skip to page 12.
http://www.senate.ga.gov/sro/Documen...0StateFlag.pdf

[jpk1292000]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

You're part of the reason the South is dismissed and looked down upon by Northerners, Westerners, and Midwesterners. You're the reason the South cannot advance in this world. You're the reason the South has a high poverty rate, high crime rate, poor education, and bigotry. You're the reason Atlanta cannot be the great city it can be because it's held back by being in the South.

The South might as well be Russia at this point. Seriously, people arguing that the Civil War isn't about slavery is just bigoted and racism to me.

Atlanta already is a great city.

[toll_booth]

I don't think I've participated in a thread in a long time where I've received so many "You must spread around some more Reputation before giving it to ____ again" messages. It is very enlightening that most of you, but not all of you, are giving due deference to the dark history of the Confederate (battle) flag.

Comparisons to the Nazi flag have inevitably arisen. My god that was a hilarious pic of the "Sons of Nazi Veterans" faux license plate. On a more somber note, it is worth noting that millions of American soldiers gave their lives to defend this nation against both of those flags.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

On a more somber note, it is worth noting that millions of American soldiers gave their lives to defend this nation against both of those flags.

Very true. Also worth noting that thousands of American soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen, of both genders and all races, gave their lives defending the very 1st Amendment rights used to express opinions here, whether popular or not.

[AcidSnake]

Here is what I've observed about this thread. Maybe I am wrong, but bear with me:

There are some people will lay claim to being "balanced and neutral".

But that's pretty easy & convenient, when they are a part of the majority tribe making the rules.

There, they are safely ensconced and protected from the harsh social, economic, cultural, & political practices from one division within that majority tribe...as long as they don't visibly show signs of being at odds with that division within the majority tribe.

But when they are in the minority tribe who will ultimately bear the brunt of the consequences of the decisions of the majority tribe, then it becomes a different ballgame.

That smug air of superiority goes away, when the protection of overwhelming numbers offered by being in a majority, ceases to exist.

It's why you have white people who, when finding themselves in a situation where they are obviously a minority...will quickly show signs of discomfort. And will move post-haste back to the environment where they feel most safe. In the majority again.

Or they will work to create a environment where they will be a majority, such as redlining the property values of people unlike themselves, raising taxes to the point where only those that can afford it will pay them, create a work environment that rewards some people based on their tribal affiliation & excludes others, and over-populate the legal system to ensure that only the tribe with the numbers will have the most say on who gets "justice".

Anyone who doesn't live with their head buried in the sand have easily seen these situations in play, over and over again in the United States, and doubly so in the south.

That's why I yawn and roll my eyes on these politically charged issues like the U.S. Civil War...when some people claim to be "balanced and neutral".

As long as men are who they are, such a trait is not possible, I'd say.

I have yet to see a situation where a typical human being can easily leave their own innate belief systems off the table when passing judgement.

But that's just an observation, mind you. I could be wrong.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Very true. Also worth noting that thousands of American soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen, of both genders and all races, gave their lives defending the very 1st Amendment rights used to express opinions here, whether popular or not.

Yes. I believe we have a moral mandate to use that right responsibly.

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

snip

Grr! Another post that I want to "like" but can't.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by danielj72

The condition blacks lived in anywhere in America, especially before WW2 was really no better than slavery for many many people who endured it. The whole of America was guilty, NOT just the south or the Confederacy.

This part of your post is really where the magnitude of your ignorance shines through.

You REALLY think blacks were not worse off in the south before WW2?

The whole of America was just as guilty of the Jim Crow stuff?

REALLY???

[Psykomonkee]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

But that's just an observation, mind you. I could be wrong.

Good post