What's Wrong with the Suburbs? (Atlanta, Alpharetta: cul-de-sac, 2013, houses)
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I hate not having sidewalks. I hate not having transit and I hate my nearest reastaurnt being Applebee's. So I guess in that regard I hate the suburbs.
I have sidewalks, but I don't have transit. My closest restaurants (all within walking distance) are Vingenzo's (in a strip mall), Ipps (in a historic house), and Freight (in a renovated train depot). Oh, and Hot Dog Heaven (if that counts as a restaurant). The nearest Applebee's is 8 miles away.
I hate not having sidewalks. I hate not having transit and I hate my nearest reastaurnt being Applebee's. So I guess in that regard I hate the suburbs.
I live outside the perimeter (a mile and a half from 285) and I have a greenway right across the street which one can walk to the Silver Comet Trail and go north to Marietta and Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park. If I had to take public transit, which I find extremely time inefficient in the metro Atlanta area, I can walk a mile and take a CCT bus to the Cumberland Transfer Station where I can connect to a bus which goes to the MARTA Arts Center Station(which I have done in the past).
There isn't an Applebee's within 2 miles, but there is an Atkins Park Restaurant as well as South City Kitchen and numerous other non chain eateries. Vinings Jubilee, with numerous interesting shops and restaurants, is 5 minutes away.
What I'm getting at is that I don't find the quality of my life greatly diminished just because I live outside of I-285. As far as sidewalks go, in Cobb County, you can walk till you drop. Also, I don't see some tremendous change in the atmosphere as you drive into Vinings and western Buckhead - in fact, western Buckhead, with all of the huge estate lots along Paces Ferry Rd. and West Paces Ferry Rd. seems far less urban than the 1/4 acre lots that are the norm in the newer subdivisions of Smyrna and Smynings.
The ITP which I think most of the posters here are boasting about are the neighborhoods which were developed before everyone owned a car and many took street cars into Downtown Atlanta. These neighborhoods would include Midtown, VA Highlands, Old Fourth Ward, Grant Park, Kirkwood and East Atlanta. These neighborhoods were built before World War II when many families didn't own two cars. These neighborhoods are a small percentage of all of the area inside I-285. Just think about all of the areas in SW Atlanta that look like suburbia as well as South DeKalb which was developed in the 1960's. Buckhead, was primarily developed later than those closer in neighborhoods and therefore, there isn't the density in the single family neighborhoods.
The division between ITP and OTP seems silly for those of us who live along 285 and cross that highway all of the time just to run errands (like going to Publix and Home Depot in Vinings).
Woodstock is VERY cookie-cutter apart from it's downtown area which is decent for a small suburban city. Just look at all the businesses on the main drag(HWY 92). It's like an exact replica of driving down 138 in Conyers. Boring. Cities are unique and interesting. Cities have stories to tell. Suburbs don't, especially the newer ones. They are sterile.
Woodstock is VERY cookie-cutter apart from it's downtown area which is decent for a small suburban city. Just look at all the businesses on the main drag(HWY 92). It's like an exact replica of driving down 138 in Conyers. Boring. Cities are unique and interesting. Cities have stories to tell. Suburbs don't, especially the newer ones. They are sterile.
And the businesses on 92 and 138 aren't at all inside the perimeter as well?
Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to take some paperwork to Lemon Ave, the main inner city thoroughfare that connects Downtown Dallas to Love Field. Think Piedmont or Cheshire Bridge for a similar main Atlanta Street... about that demographic and distance from downtown.
The person I was to meet told me they would be at lunch, so I had some time to kill so I thought I would get a bite as well and find something unique and "unsuburban." I drove several blocks down Lemon Ave looking for something interesting. You know what I saw?
KFC. Burger King. McDonalds. Taco Bell. Carl's Jr. (think Hardees). IHOP. Chlii's. Etc. Etc. Etc. The only unique places I saw were in strip malls, independent Chinese and Mexican places that didn't have much appeal.
In essence, the EXACT SAME STUFF that inner city dwellers say is what the suburbs are made of.
Does Dallas (and Atlanta... same chapter, second verse IMO) have unique, intersting places to get lunch that aren't the same generic chains? Of course... but so do the burbs! But the basic chains are all over the central cities too.
The fact is, and has been brought up by others here, but sunbelt cities are for the most part laid out just like the burbs. There is the original core city built pre WWII that wasn't car dependent, but the vast majority of Atlanta and Dallas and other cities like them are post war, car dependent, very suburbanish lay outs.
Well, what I have read so far is pretty much about preference. Nothing real, and definitely not enough to justify the hate toward suburbia. It reminds me of the small town I grew up in. The people in town would look down their noses at the rural folks. Northerners do it to Southerners. Americans do it to all non-Americans. Of course, it happens the other way as well, but not nearly as much.
I had been considering moving intown, but so far I have not been able to justify the increase in cost and decrease in space, particularly with a small family and the chance that I will probably be looking to move farther and farther from the city as I approach the golden years.
People in the suburbs look down their noses at ITP'ers alot more than people in the city look down their noses at people from OTP. Dont even front. There were even a few jabs in this very same thread. Like someone actually said that without the 'burbs Atlanta would be another Memphis. And I actually took offense to that, and if that wasn't a snobbish ass backwards statement then I dont know what is.
It always cracks me up when people say things like that. The suburbs as a whole are not nicer than the city, yeah you have some nice ones, but most look old and run down and not in a cool way either. And when I say run down I dont mean in a grimey, crime infested way. They look run down in a country, slow, backwater type of way. What is so nice about that I will never know.
Not even touching on the traffic, that by itself is enough for me to never even think about OTP. I like to joke that the only time I touch the interstate is when I am going out of town. In the middle of rush hour on a Friday afternoon I can get from East Atlanta in SE to Howell Mill Rd in NW without touching the Interstate and I cant imagine living any other way.
People who were born ITP do not grow up and move OTP, its the people who were born OTP who grow up and move ITP. The only exceptions are when people just cant afford it and they have no other choice but to move out there.
I don't understand this argument at all. Can you elaborate?
Statement was made after several years on this forum and the Dallas forum where I find a very snobbish attitude from inner city dwellers toward the suburbs. I actually find the looking down the nose attitude worse on the Dallas forum. As my screen name shows, I am a Georgia native, will return one day but currently reside in Texas because of powers beyond my control currently.... namely a Cobb County judge's decision to allow my ex to move the kids to TX... but enough of my personal laundry.
Atlanta and Dallas are twins in many regards. Both have taken a can do business attitude and their position in the country to grow phenomenally in the last several decades. The growth has been so massive, that both areas, IMO are really regions as opposed to central cities with bedroom communities. Their bedroom communities have become economic engines of their own. Without the huge growth of the REGION, neither Dallas or Atlanta would be top ten metro areas.
There are perks that the core cities both have because of the growth of the REGION.... sports teams, universities and other great public institutions, symphonies, museums, and a host of other intangibles that come with being a major player on the national scene.
Without the growth of the REGION.... which in both cases has seen all over but primarily in the burbs.... the core cities would be middle of the pack cities like the ones I mention. To be an ITP dweller and snub the suburbs is hypocritical as the inner city has perks that come with it being the core of a top ten metro area, not a middle of the pack metro area. MHO of course, take it or leave it.
People in the suburbs look down their noses at ITP'ers alot more than people in the city look down their noses at people from OTP. Dont even front. There were even a few jabs in this very same thread. Like someone actually said that without the 'burbs Atlanta would be another Memphis. And I actually took offense to that, and if that wasn't a snobbish ass backwards statement then I dont know what is.
It always cracks me up when people say things like that. The suburbs as a whole are not nicer than the city, yeah you have some nice ones, but most look old and run down and not in a cool way either. And when I say run down I dont mean in a grimey, crime infested way. They look run down in a country, slow, backwater type of way. What is so nice about that I will never know.
Not even touching on the traffic, that by itself is enough for me to never even think about OTP. I like to joke that the only time I touch the interstate is when I am going out of town. In the middle of rush hour on a Friday afternoon I can get from East Atlanta in SE to Howell Mill Rd in NW without touching the Interstate and I cant imagine living any other way.
People who were born ITP do not grow up and move OTP, its the people who were born OTP who grow up and move ITP. The only exceptions are when people just cant afford it and they have no other choice but to move out there.
You are offended because I compare the difference of being a metro area of 6 million vs. one hovering around the 1 to 2 million mark? How is that offensive? How is that looking down the nose to those in the city?
You are offended because I compare the difference of being a metro area of 6 million vs. one hovering around the 1 to 2 million mark? How is that offensive? How is that looking down the nose to those in the city?
Naw dude dont try to sugar coat what you said.
Atlanta as a city isnt even 500 K, take the whole ITP and its probably still not even 1 million, so what you said doesn't even make any sense.
Thats what suburb people do alot, I call it throwing rocks and then hiding your hands, and quite honestly yall are good at it. You said the suburbs add "panache" to Atlanta when it very much is the exact opposite.
Atlanta and Dallas are twins in many regards. Both have taken a can do business attitude and their position in the country to grow phenomenally in the last several decades. The growth has been so massive, that both areas, IMO are really regions as opposed to central cities with bedroom communities. Their bedroom communities have become economic engines of their own. Without the huge growth of the REGION, neither Dallas or Atlanta would be top ten metro areas.
.
Outside of the northern arc of 285, there is no suburban economic engine of growth in the metro. And even those areas in that northern arc can really go either way- ITP or OTP.
That engine which you speak of out in the burbs is just a tangled web of subdivisions and strip malls. No panache, no power house of business or economic growth, no centers of culture, nothing.
Nothing wrong with living in the burbs, after all everyone is different. But dont make side ways comments out of the side of your neck and then if you do, at least let the balls drop and stand by what you said.
I'm still Laughing at the panache comment. Pure comedy. Like Atlanta gets its swagger from the 'burbs. News flash buddy, Atlanta gets its swagger from alot of those ITP places places where you OTP'ers wont even touch.
Outside of the northern arc of 285, there is no suburban economic engine of growth in the metro. And even those areas in that northern arc can really go either way- ITP or OTP.
That engine which you speak of out in the burbs is just a tangled web of subdivisions and strip malls. No panache, no power house of business or economic growth, no centers of culture, nothing.
Nothing wrong with living in the burbs, after all everyone is different. But dont make side ways comments out of the side of your neck and then if you do, at least let the balls drop and stand by what you said.
I'm still Laughing at the panache comment. Pure comedy. Like Atlanta gets its swagger from the 'burbs. News flash buddy, Atlanta gets its swagger from alot of those ITP places places where you OTP'ers wont even touch.
Keep talking and showing your lack of comprehension.
Population in 1950:
Metro Atlanta: 726,789
Metro Memphis: 482,393
Population in 2012:
Metro Atlanta: 5,422,852
Metro Memphis: 1,341,690
Atlanta was larger by 264,000 people in 1950. 62 years later it is over 4 million people larger. Had Atlanta grown at the same rate (Memphis is now 2.7 times larger) in the same time period, the population of metro Atlanta would be around 1.9 million. That would rank it as the 31st largest metro area in the country, currently being held by Columbus, OH. Memphis is currently 41st. Instead Atlanta is the 9th largest metro area.
9th vs. 31st or 41st equals panache on the national scale in anyone's book (except yours I guess).
The vast majority of this growth has been OTP. Without the suburbs you so deride, would Atlanta have the Braves, Falcons or Hawks? The Hawks, maybe... Memphis has managed to land an NBA team. Would the Georgia Dome be in Atlanta? Would its universities, its museums, its malls, its many attractions be the same if it were the same size as Columbus OH?
Again, this growth has been seen primarily in the areas OTP. This does not denigrate Atlanta. On the contrary it has allowed areas ITP to attract things that a metro area in the middle of the pack could not attract.
My point is directed primarily at people who have an attitude of deriding the suburbs. It is not a derision of the city of Atlanta itself. I am at a loss to understand your attitude and use of adolescent epithets in your responses to me. Go back and choose any of the hundreds of posts I have made about Atlanta and environs and see where I have derided the city or areas ITP at any time. Yes, I have pointed out the snobbery of ITPers, but I have yet to deride the area itself.
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